[Closed] 3$ SnG, AQ, at what pint to lay it down?

Hi Middleman,

I wouldn't fold here. In fact, I'd go all-in after the turn bet.

raise flop perhaps? or limp preflop?

Hi middleman,

I would raise to 120 preflop, and I would push this turn.

Chenny/Nick: Would you not re-raise the flop?

Hi Spidey1978, I usually don't raise these donkbets, because very often they will follow up with a turn bet. So I "slowplay" in position, and hope to win a second bet from them before protecting my hand. Of course, this has the disadvantage that sometimes the turn comes and kills your action (and indeed, because it's multiway, someone behind us to act could well be priced in with a flush draw).

It's perfectly fine to raise the flop bet for value. In fact, in retrospect, this is the optimal choice for us given the multi-way pot, and the fact that there's both a flush draw and a straight draw on the board.

I always raise this flop, so i can go broke on any non spade turn, or, even better, so I can go broke right here, on the flop. I'd never just call in this spot. On such a drawy boards, there are too many turncards i don't want to see, so i raise for both protection and value. Pot is 610, I would probably just shove over his donkbet, and potsized. I don't think this is the best board to just call here, and since you are ahead often enough, shoving is fine imo.

Edit: now i see i already responded, but i didn't look at the potsize probably, since I dont like my answer.

Yeah well, in retrospect I change my mind about it. Mainly because it's multiway, I feel we usually have to raise this flop for value/protection. Calling is OK if it's heads up, (both choices are about as good heads up), but raising is best multiway.

Well, it seems you where up against a set or twopair, you should reraise on the flop making it 400-500 to go. On the turn - if there is a big bet you are basically dead (except if you catched twopair or trips) that said i would fold to any sign of resistance on the turn (villains 360 bet) as you should allready figure out - it will be an all-in on the river

Originally posted by czesiu22
Well, it seems you where up against a set or twopair, you should reraise on the flop making it 400-500 to go. On the turn - if there is a big bet you are basically dead (except if you catched twopair or trips) that said i would fold to any sign of resistance on the turn (villains 360 bet) as you should allready figure out - it will be an all-in on the river

if you raise to 400 more, you're already committed, I like shoving for potsize better tbh.

Indeed, if we raise the flop, we are committed to the pot. Even an infinitesimal chance that villain is bluffing will justify a turncall.

Originally posted by chenny8888
Indeed, if we raise the flop, we are committed to the pot. Even an infinitesimal chance that villain is bluffing will justify a turncall.

I'm not feeling committed there is always half of my stack left (for better times)
Villain called a pot bet on the flop, and bet out BIG on the turn (with the flush draw not hitting) - you are either against top pair(unlikely) or twopair. With 4 callers your hand is somewhat marginal. It's time to cut your loses. Pretend the big flop bet is a "feeler bet". after the call and bet you "feel" pretty much behind.

Another reason for folding - lowish blinds, and don't let mr "sitting out" stay longer in a tournament than you. Last time mr "Sitting out" finished 4 in words FOURTH by virtue of not showing up and folding all those hands.

i dont really see your point. If you raise the flop, you can't fold tptk anymore, because even if you raise small, it might induce a push from worse queens, so you're committed either way.

I'm not feeling committed there is always half of my stack left (for better times)

that's not relevant. Relevant is equity to win vs. your opponents' range and the pot odds, and those are such and such here, that I wouldn't be able to find a fold.

Raise/folding TPTK is a very bad move here, as Nick pointed out.

But I would like to add that, because this is a very drawy board, people could shove on us with just a flush draw, or flushdraw + pair combos (which we can't fold to because of pot odds).

In fact, with or without reads, I would always shove flushdraw + pair here in villain's spot over a raise. Especially a weak raise.

Originally posted by chenny8888
Raise/folding TPTK is a very bad move here, as Nick pointed out.

But I would like to add that, because this is a very drawy board, people could shove on us with just a flush draw, or flushdraw + pair combos (which we can't fold to because of pot odds).

In fact, with or without reads, I would always shove flushdraw + pair here in villain's spot over a raise. Especially a weak raise.

And I fold by knowing - there will be many better spots to make money, top pair is favorite against a draw, but leave that play for the bubble/ in the money.
There is nothing worse, than going broke in the first 5 hands with nothing more than top pair

Relevant is equity to win vs. your opponents' range and the pot odds

I put my nice opponent on twopair - so I'm drawing to 5 outs TY, there are times for big wins, you know nothing about your opponent's In a cash game - sure, easy call, in a rebuy tournament - great in a SNG - nope, sorry. There is only one time, where I would call - if i had villain outstacked by at least 1/3.
I had two SnG's lately where i started out shortstacked (down to 80 and 120 with 10/20 blinds) and won the SNG.

sry, i just can't stress how bad that would be. if we fold the best hand with something like 1.3-1.5x your remaining stack already in the pot (where the pot is dead money) well... that's really really bad!

you referred to negreanu's video in one of your comments earlier. there is one (same series by the way) where he talks about pot odds, and how once he had raised AQ, he had to call his opponents reraise even if he KNEW his opponent had KK.

here we're talking about being AHEAD a lot of the time, and folding..