Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

NL5SH - KQo OOP

7 Posts
2 Users
0 Reactions
263 Views
muel294
Joined: 06.06.2009

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 49 BB (VPIP: 57.14, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
Hero (BB): 158.8 BB
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 15.93, PFR: 13.74, 3Bet Preflop: 6.90, Hands: 185)
CO: 40.2 BB (VPIP: 33.96, PFR: 20.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 53)
BTN: 21.4 BB (VPIP: 38.54, PFR: 7.29, 3Bet Preflop: 1.96, Hands: 98)

Preflop: Flat to keep in some of CO's dominated range and if I 3b I don't expect to get called or 4b by worse. I expected his range to be something like

Spoiler


       Equity     Win     Tie
CO     48.65%  46.32%   2.33% { 22+, A7s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, A9o+, K9o+, QTo+, J9o+ }
BB     51.35%  49.01%   2.33% { KQs, KQo }

As for the SB. I think since he is also likely to be a recreational player that his range could be pretty much anything TBH, but probably some small pairs, SC's J,Q,K,AX.

Flop: When SB DB's the flop I would expect him to do this with TP or draws. I felt like my options OOP vs the PFA'r were either to call and re-evaluate the turn and take a pot control line or to raise / fold to a 3b since I would not expect to be getting bluffed very often if I get 3b on such a flop.

I chose the call and re-evaluate mainly because I wanted to see how the CO reacted. Since he did not raise the flop I did not expect him to have a very strong hand, but I did not get any more info on his range. I still expected it to consist of TP, draws and maybe some pairs > TP.

Turn: When SB donks again I still think he has TP and draws still. It is possible that he plays a Tx this way to continue to induce a raise from myself or the CO but I would usually expect players to start increasing their bet sizing when they actually hit a value hand 2pr+.

Again I felt I could either raise or flat and continue to play for pot control. If I raised I didn't really make a plan for if I get 3b, but decided to anyway due to the board texture ( I felt that I need to raise for value/protection vs weaker pairs and draws) . I think I would have to raise/fold even given the pot odds because it's hard to believe that either villain would play weaker KX and draws this way. This makes me think that I should continue the pot control line if I would plan to raise/fold it.

River: Since I put SB on TP and draws I decided to just call and go to showdown. Couldn't see too many hands in villains range that would bet/call this river. Hard to think he would bet/call K2,K3,K5-8

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has Q♣ K♦

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, fold, SB calls 2.6 BB, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (9 BB, 3 players) K♣ T♥ 4♠
SB bets 1 BB, Hero calls 1 BB, CO calls 1 BB

Turn: (12 BB, 3 players) T♠
SB bets 2 BB, Hero raises to 12 BB, fold, SB calls 10 BB

River: (36 BB, 2 players) 9♦
SB bets 4 BB, Hero calls 4 BB

Spoiler

SB shows A♠ 8♠ (One Pair, Tens) (Pre 60%, Flop 16%, Turn 25%)
Hero shows Q♣ K♦ (Two Pair, Kings and Tens) (Pre 40%, Flop 84%, Turn 75%)
Hero wins 42.2 BB


Reply
Quote
6 replies

Hi Muel,

Preflop: both CO and SB seems fishy and I can see at least SB calling many worse hands if we 3-bet. And if CO folds that much to a 3-bet then it's even better because we isolate the SB fish all for ourselves.

I'd make it 9-10 BB here given their stack sizes.

I think it's a big mistake to just call a small bet and give CO a chance to bluff us out of the pot. How do you think a min donk + call look? Very weak.

We should raise there for pure value and if either have a hand they would call us.

As played your turn raise is fine but should have come on the flop (and look to play for stacks). And river can also be a small value raise.


Reply
Quote
muel294
Joined: 06.06.2009

Re: if SB 3b shoves the T then I would be getting like 2:1 on a call so I would need like 32% equity to make a call here if I have done the maths right. Please correct me if necessary:

(E* = total pot after SB shoves = 26bb + 43bb = 69bb / 33bb to call = 2.09 + 1
= 1/3.09 = 0.323 *100 = 32%

or

E* = total pot inc all bets/raises: 26+43+33 = 102 = 33/102 = 0.32*100 = 32% )

I would think villain would bet/shove something like the following range:
(I think this is quite a conservative estimate)


Board: K♣T♥4♠ T♠
       Equity     Win     Tie
SB     60.06%  54.21%   5.85% { TdTc, AhKh, AsKs, AsQs, KhQh, KsQs, AsJs, KhJh, KsJs, QdJd, QhJh, QsJs, AdTd, AcTc, QdTd, JdTd, JcTc, Ks9s, Qs9s, Js9s, Td9d, Tc9c, Ks8s, Td8d, Tc8c, Ks7s, Ks6s, Ks5s, AdTc, AhTd, AhTc, AsTd, AsTc, AcTd, KhQd, KhQs, KsQd, KsQh, KhJd, KhJs, KhJc, KsJd, KsJh, KsJc, KhTd, KhTc, KsTd, KsTc, QdJh, QdJs, QdJc, QhJd, QhJs, QhJc, QsJd, QsJh, QsJc, QdTc, QhTd, QhTc, QsTd, QsTc, JdTc, JhTd, JhTc, JsTd, JsTc, JcTd }
BB     39.94%  34.09%   5.85% { KdQc }


Reply
Quote
muel294
Joined: 06.06.2009

Preflop: I presume it would be a 3b/fold line?

Flop / Turn: Doesn't raising the flop only iso me vs better or do you think they are likely to be bad enough to bet/call all their KX and draws. I still think that vs a 3b on the flop we would mostly be behind to 2pr+. On the Turn I think I can more easily raise/broke vs a 3b.

I am usually just calling a lot with TP's OOP w/o PF initiative so as not to ISO myself vs better. Is this a big leak?

Should I try to be a bit more liberal in raising flop for pure value vs such players. I know it depends a lot on other factors.


Reply
Quote

Originally posted by muel294
Preflop: I presume it would be a 3b/fold line?

Flop / Turn: Doesn't raising the flop only iso me vs better or do you think they are likely to be bad enough to bet/call all their KX and draws. I still think that vs a 3b on the flop we would mostly be behind to 2pr+. On the Turn I think I can more easily raise/broke vs a 3b.

I am usually just calling a lot with TP's OOP w/o PF initiative so as not to ISO myself vs better. Is this a big leak?

Should I try to be a bit more liberal in raising flop for pure value vs such players. I know it depends a lot on other factors.

3-bet/fold yes.

Why would a flop raise isolate you only versus better? You think KX will fold the flop? How about Tx or draws? Fish like him donk/call all the time with a ton of garbage hands.

Here you are not facing a big cbet from the PFR. You are facing a min bet donk from a fish. There's a huge difference there.

If for example all of you check and CO comes out betting I agree that calling would be better rather than ck/raise and look very strong and possibly get worse to fold.


Reply
Quote
muel294
Joined: 06.06.2009

Thanks BogdanPS,

Why would a flop raise isolate you only versus better? You think KX will fold the flop? How about Tx or draws? Fish like him donk/call all the time with a ton of garbage hands.

usually yes. I think I put my logic onto fish and expect them to play a similar way. I guess I give them way too much credit.

Here you are not facing a big cbet from the PFR. You are facing a min bet donk from a fish. There's a huge difference there. If for example all of you check and CO comes out betting I agree that calling would be better rather than ck/raise and look very strong and possibly get worse to fold.

Yes I agree here too. I guess when villain who was not the PFA'r starts min donking it says a lot about his range. I guess if the CO had o/r a normal sizing preflop and it went check, check on the flop then x/c'ing makes way more sense to start bluff inducing?


Reply
Quote

Yes, if you apply your logic to their play you also have to consider preflop.

The fish would not play 57/14 and limp hands :)

And for your second question my answer would be yes, that would be one option.


Reply
Quote