[Closed] Misplayed from the get go

i think i'd make a crying call here. b/c i'd expect both KKxx and 44xx to raise earlier. I think this is more often K4xx, 43xx than a better hand.

call. it's marginal since you'll get shown a better FH about as often as a worse one.

Call. I feel 33xx or 74/K4xx is more likely than KK, because it was a limped/checked pot to the river. Unless your opponent has a huge liking for slowing his topset to the river (in which case you should seriously note that up), most of the time you have the best hand. You also didn't bet your hand on the turn, so your opponent is going to put you at a lot weaker hand most of the time, than you really are.

board: 3cKh7s4s4h
Hand Pot equity
7h9dTd7d 86.28%
56**,34**,KK**,44**,74**,K4** 13.72%

As you see, folding the hand here would be a mistake. Only hands that has you beat is KK** and 44**, and if get afraid of quads everytime you hit overcard with your pocket pair, then you should stop playing them.

On higher levels this might be a different situation, but at PL25, you have to call at that spot.

thanks! i ended up calling out of the same reasoning and he showed me his weirdly played KK top set but i agree that he will often have other hands here

is my re-raise ok?

Hello !

When i first read the post and the comments from the coach i initially agreed with the comments, but after contemplating the case for a while it struck me. If the other card in the kk hand was really bad one couldnt expect him to raise with that hand preflop so to exclude the kk because there wasnt a raise preflop is in my opinion wrong. On the flop it is not so hard to understand why you check with kk. If you bet topset as the first man and you get called by the first person you could get a lot of calls with many combination of straight draw. So in my opinion aiming for a checraise is the proper move, and with many person left to act its not that optimistic. When the turn falls, if you are not an aggressive you dont bet an topset as a semibluff, which makes hes check pretty plausible if hes not an creative player. And when he finally makes a third raise on the river i think you can narrow his handrange down to the 2 hands that beat you. The play is pretty logical if you consider it like this, i think. You could also apply almost the same reasoning when it comes to the other hands that you can beat, except that he hardly wouldnt do the third raise with any of those hands. So i must end this reply by actually saying i think, without an tell, a pretty obvious fold.

skitunibet, when I later thought about this hand, I thought that what you say, is quite plausible. I think the problem here is the 3-better's position. I don't doubt that he wouldn't try to checkraise with a combodraw himself, or on the turn. You have to remember this is PL25.

But, on the river. Against a stranger, I'd call that bet. As I said, there are only two types of hand that beat you, so folding would in my view be pretty tight. K7, 74, 34 - all of those hand would 3-bet hero there, without hesitation - thinking they are rarely beat. I have been in the same spot time and time again, and as was pointed out above, the situation tends to be marginal without reads (hero is getting 2:1 odds, so he only needs to be right every third time). 4-betting would increase variance, so I wouldn't necessarily push allin there, even though it doesn't change the outcome any.

At PL25, a lot of people still view all fullhouses as "all in" type of hands, and view losing to a better full a cold deck or a bad beat - but equally, there are people who do know the difference. I have seen people play 65 like that on the spot, since they sometimes put hero on 'just' trips. Therefore, I view the call is +EV. If the guy knows his way around the game, then sure, go ahead and fold, but against a nobody? Isn't this a good spot to find out?

EDIT: I have to add, I have mainly played on Full Tilt Poker's PL25 tables. If someone has better knowledge of Party's tables, voice your concern and I shall slink away.

Hello !

Thanks to the coach for the quick reply.

you analyzed the hand in a good way skitunibet, but I think that the hands that bet us, KK**,44** to be precise, lead out on the flop a bit more often than they try to c/raise. if we assume that BB is a thinking player he knows that a c/r on such a dry board looks just like topset and nothing else whereas he can't be sure that straightdraws or 2 pair combos lead out on the flop to give him the opp. to c/r. but he can be very confident that these hands call at least a flopbet.
so given this and the board structure (33** is an easy fold here btw) I still advocate a call.