Qq Fr .10/.20

strat9

Joined: 06.02.2008

10.10.2008, 00:05 0

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;SB$2.62:23/35 /0 /0.4/50 /-/100 /0 ;BB$6.87:68/12 /7 /1.5/38 /0 /100 /60 ;UTG+1$5.51:19/42 /0 /0.5/33 /0 /-/67 ;UTG+2$2.85:41/7 /2 /2.5/50 /0 /-/0 ;MP1$2.41:11/55 /9 /0.7/38 /-/-/67 ;MP2$13.73:29/45 /3 /0.4/33 /0 /-/40 ;Hero$1.53:///////;CO$4.10:41/54 /7 /1.1/60 /0 /-/40 ;BU$5.10:110/12 /0 /0.7/42 /0 /-/60 ;[/tg]
0.1/0.2 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.60 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q♥, Q♠
2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO calls, BU calls, SB calls, BB folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (13.00 SB) 9♣, T♦, Q♦ (6 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BU folds, SB calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.00 BB) K♥ (5 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

River: (17.00 BB) Q♣ (2 players)
MP2 checks, CO bets, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: 19.00 BB

Results follow (highlight to see):
CO shows a straight, ace high (Jc Ac)
MP2 shows a straight, king high (Th Jh)

CO wins with a straight, ace high (Jc Ac)

I imagine I will take a lot of shit for this, but this capped off a bad run, the kind where you think the cards are out to get you. I don't think I played the hands badly, but after this I immediately closed my tables while yelling at the screen.

This was a six-way pot and was quite certain somebody had a J. I raised to try to see who would stay in the hand and maybe get an idea of how many J's were left in case I could draw to one. I didn't like the reaction so I invested no more money. Plus articles say to raise with the initiative and trips. But was this a bad raise, then a bad fold?

3 replies

Waiboy

Joined: 18.09.2008

Posts: 4,877

10.10.2008, 05:00 0

Hi Strat9

My first attempt at commenting on another hand so will be interested to see how far off I am!

After CO 3-bet you are only investing 1 more BB to get 17. I guess you have to ask how often you are ahead here to get your moneys worth.

Given the way the hand has played out, MP2 looks like he's either on a flush or straight draw or has hit the K (possibly with a J). CO looks like he's either hit a made straight, is also on a straight draw or has hit the K to make top pair / set / 2 pair. So really I'm only worried about the CO's hand at the turn. And the way these guys play I'd think the chance he's just on top pair is great enough to justify a raise then call of a 3-bet on the turn.

On river and in position I think a set is good enough to call 1 bet with, or if you get the same bet / raise action from MP2 and CO then I'd fold (unless of course we've improved to a full house - or quads in which case CAP!!! ;)).

After looking at your reads I'd definitely call v the CO with a 45% VPIP and WTS of 60%. He's playing ANYTHING and the pot is too big to fold v his range IMO. MP2 looks like he can fold a hand so further action from this player on the river is more likely meaningful.

Can't help with the equity side of this play as I'm still trying to get to grips with it! Be interested to see what part this plays in the correct decision.

"...and then I was like "?", and they were like "..." and then it all came down to the cheese making method. Needless to say

TerrorBlade

Joined: 16.10.2007

Posts: 1,918

10.10.2008, 06:11 0

At this limit it's even close whether or not to raise such a card even with a hand like 2nd set, but I guess it makes 100% sure whether we're ahead or behind & it can't be that bad, but honestly as a beginner I'm not sure whether a raise is the best play on the turn, I'd treat our hand as a drawing hand from this point - however, what you and Waiboy haven't noticed is that we have a TON of outs which draw us to the nuts 99.9% of the time.

3 9s + 3 Ts + 1 Q + 3 Ks = 10 full clean outs! According to pokerstove assuming that they both have the hands they're holding now we have 21% equity on the turn, thus need 1:8.4 to call, and the pot offers us 1:17, even if MP2 caps it we get good enough odds after paying 2 BB! This of course doesn't include the implied odds of raising the river when we hit too!

Call call call! 2nd set is a huge drawing hand against raising fish in this case!

strat9

Joined: 06.02.2008

Posts: 511

10.10.2008, 06:25 0

I found a link in one of the older hands and it explains the idiocy of the play in this hand. The only thing that can make me feel better about losing out on this giant pot is to help others avoid the pitfall (unless you're playing against me ).

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=micro&Number=462860&fpart=1&PHPSESSID=

[Closed] Qq Fr .10/.20