AKQ8ds OOP vs raise + 3bet

Hi,

shitty spot, but with 2 nut backdoor fd's it makes it an easy call. Donk is fine and probably the best play here. But if they like to cbet a lot c/r is also fine.

Regards,

Skod

Yeah, postflop ont that Flop is more or less easy, but afterwards I would prefer a donk, as 4handed one cannot really expect a cbet.

But what about preflop? Preflop has not that shallow range and MP has not that shallow 3bet range. But anyway, I have the feeling, that this Spot with this Hand cannot be profitable... What do you think?

I did some calculations: vs 14% from EP, 8% from MP and 40% from SB, which all should be too wide for this spo, I have only 21% 4handed (SB eg has 24% -.-).
The Flop seems hitten very well, however, against all 3 its 21% only, too. And I think, I would'nt get any chips in, if I am ahead, maybe only vs AQJT or so.

So all in all: preflop fold
post flop: look mainly for Q8, JT and Flushdraws...
on this flop: maybe ch/c vs EP or some value vs SB, but never vs MP.

I wouldn't expect EP to have AA, but there is a good possibility for KK as well.
Turned out, he had AA: Thats another discussion: How can you expect someone to have AA as played??????

Regards MGF

Hi,

your hand is too strong thanks to the nut draws it has to fold in this spot, esp when it looks like the whole table is calling. Even with the tight ranges, it's possible you have the best hand here pre. I would really find a tough time to fold this preflop, even tough i hate cold calling 3bets in general.

The KK and AA are obv a problem, especially 4way your blockers don't work as well. But AKxx is also possible, and the SPR is less than 2 post so you have to stackoff.

Regards,

Skod

What about the ranges preflop and the resulting equity we have(21%, 4handed). We can afford this call only if the implieds are high and the reverse implieds are low... I can't see much reason, why it should be that way (we are OOP, when we hit well, like on the given Flop, we are against a dominating set or won't get any value anyway, the pure nutvalue of the hand hits too seldom to make up for this)

For me it "simply" seems to be a shitty spot, where AKQ8ds isn't a playable hand anymore preflop.

Hi,

how do you know what 14% of a guy's range consists? Especially at this limit, this can be so different it's crazy. Some people love to play low rundowns, some love to play pocket pairs etc...

Where do you find the 8% of MP? or 14% of EP? I'm hoping you are not making assumptions based on a such a small sample either

but the first point is my main point. If both players have rundowns here you are waaay ahead mw.

And your hand doesn't have terrible reverse implied odds, unless you do hit AKxx, at precisely the moment someone of them has KK or AA, which is in it's own right unlikely due to blockers.

What do you think?

REgards,

Skod

The ranges are indeed based on the small sample size. But anyway it is no crazy ranges.
I think, both having rundowns is very seldom... Our preflop-Equity won't go over 25% in reality, I would say... but of course I don't know exact ranges.

Pre one could call, or not, I think. But the bigger fault could be postflop. as there are 2 players who put chips on this Flop, I have a problem. I will often be vs a set, having only 10%.

Do you think, it would be clever to call pre and to fold the hand on this flop vs 2 players.
ch/c vs one player and next time hit a better multiway flop?

Regards MGF
and thank you for your evaluation

Hi,

the point here is that while you won't often have a big equity advantage, when you do flop good you will often have others destroyed. It's easy for you to play postflop with this hand. Flop the nutwrap, nutfd, nuttrips and you are very happy, dominating most of your opponents hands. But miss the board, it's an easy fold.

The only problem is obviously when this board comes, but even here you can't always fear AA or KK.

Regards,

Skod