(4) zoom nl10

Hey Vuciitis,

Preflop squeeze is ok. Sizing is very large. I have found it is not necessary to do this in squeeze situations. Something like $1.10 is fine.

Flop cbet is good.

Turn card is not good. HU on the turn I might consider continuing, but when the flop is 3way the chance one of our opponents has a flush draw is very high. X/c turn is not a decent option, x/f is good.

tnx for evaluating my hands, as always well explained and easy to understand!

Ok no probs I am pleased it is useful for you

why is it bad to 3 bet a bit larger when you still get calls with the larger bet?

What is wrong with making it like $ 3,20 on the flop? QQ seems likely to still be the best hand most of the times and I would think you need to charge people for drawing.

Originally posted by sirilidion
why is it bad to 3 bet a bit larger when you still get calls with the larger bet?

Squeezing vs EP opens looks strong regardless of our sizing. We don't always necessarily make more money with a larger bet if a smaller bet is called by a wider range. Also we should not necessarily feel committed preflop with this hand when we are squeezing vs UTG open.

Originally posted by sirilidion
What is wrong with making it like $ 3,20 on the flop? QQ seems likely to still be the best hand most of the times and I would think you need to charge people for drawing.

Similar to before. We represent a stronger range by firing into 3guys especially given our preflop play. We don't always make the most money by getting the largest bet paid if a smaller bet will get called more frequently. Generally speaking standard sizing in 3bet pots is around 1/2 pot and we can reduce this further in multi-way situations.

If we bet very large and our opponent calls only with a strong range this can also make turn play very difficult.

I would strongly disagree that you only get called by a strong range as I still see a lot of people still drawing to there straight and flushdraw despite the price your giving them.

Also I don't see how we would feel committed pre vs utg making it $ 1.40 or $ 1,10 if utg makes I big 4 bet pre I mostly assume where problably flipping vs AK or behind vs KK,AA if I haven't have any reads with would make me think otherwise.

We might indeed rep a strong hand, but you still give people great hands to outdraw you an the turn by betting so small.

I don't see how making it big on the flop makes turn play difficult since by making it so big the spr is lower then 1 on the turn so if the turn doesn't complete any draws the only play is to go All in imo.

These comments are based on basic principles for postflop play. Standard sizing in 3bet pot is 1/2 pot and we can reduce sizing based on multiway pot.

Btw we won't just have an SPR of less than one if we bet $3.30, we will have an SPR that is a lot less than one. If both guys call we will have under $7 left in our stack and a pot of nearly $15 which can make things awkward if flush card gets there.

Btw I'm not saying we'd necessarily feel comitted with a large preflop sizing. But if we are going to raise/fold wouldn't we rather lose less when we have to fold?

Our largest edge is postflop. I think there is nothing wrong with keeping our opponents range slightly wider preflop, playing with a slightly higher SPR and really capitalizing on our postflop edge.

These are not large adjustments but I expect them to have a positive impact on our winrate. It's not as if I think betting really big on the flop is -EV or anything but naturally we want to take the highest EV line.

I guess that makes sense, it is just that I don't really like playing QQ 3 or 4 ways and rather pick up the pot right there or play it HU , then give everyone decent odds calling my 3 bet to outdraw me. Also I only raise fold against the utg as the other players ranges look much weaker in general.

Hey Sirilidion,

Yeah, I understand. By the way, even if we give our opponents odds to call that doesn't necessarily mean we've made a mistake. We still extract value this way.

There is a still a reasonable chance we iso HU with a smaller bet also. This is because we get given a lot more credit for firing multi-way at these limits.

But don't get me wrong I'm not saying it's horrible to bet really big on the flop. Against players that call too much this would actually be the best option.