[Closed] Black Limit Society

Of course, I start bitching and good things happen.

Good:
F

Some goals:

Financial:
I guess a short term goal of mine would be to get to $1500 and to cash out 10% a week, unless my BR gets below $1000. I know the article says to wait to get to a certain level to cash out, but psychologically I think it helps connect poker to the rest of my life, which is kinda the point for me.

A long term goal is to hit $1000000! Looooong term goal.

Game:
My goal now is to learn and absorb as much as I can at FR FL and get to the highest levels, then either (probably) switch to SH or . . .

I would also like to learn NL. Not that I want to betray my fellow FL compadres, but NL is by far the most common live games in local poker rooms, tournaments, and with friends. I would like to kick the ass of everybody in town at NL! (I'm from Grand Rapids, MI btw). Seriously, though, I would like to expand my game to a live setting. I don't live too close to many casinos (at least not yet, more on that later) so FL has limited live opportunities currently.

I would be interested in hearing about various cashout policies, but if you have any other thoughts feel free to post whatever.

Hi. Nice to see another new FL blog around. ♦

Why don't you start learning SH right away? I've heard 1/2 FR (and higher) is too tight to be profitable on the long run. Moved to 0.5/1 SH myself when I had $500, and now (about 5 weeks later) I'm already around 1.5k.

Seriously? I had $500 but I am on a wicked downswing, mainly on Stars. I haven't hit anything. Stars is my main site but I've been playing on FT it's been so bad. So maybe when I get back up I'll look into SH. Tight tables are good to practice trickiness, which is ultimately what I think you need to get to the top. I do like FR as well, but if you've made that much money, that is definitely a mind changer.

Although I'm pretty sure my downswing is from mostly bad luck because I do bad on Stars but I'm consistent on FT, I want to make sure that I am on top of things when I go to SH, which I will be at least trying soon if those are the results. I think Opal called SH "evil," but also agreed with you saying that it is pointless to play higher in FR because of the fact that the medium to high limits are only SH tables.

I guess I'm just not sure what to expect from SH. Did your BR increase include a lot of variance?

Okay Amirapuato, you've inspired me to try SH. I will drop down to .25/.50 SH and hope to last through the weekend (downswing giving me negative attitude I guess). Nice blog btw.

Here, for my entire poker life, is my graph to this point for FR:

FR Summary Stats:
VP$IP: 15.1
PFR: 9.7
AF: 2.0 (was lowered in the new version of elephant?)
WTS: 33.9
W$@SD: 51.1
BB/100: 4.2

I will let you know how this tenative switch is going.

It did include a hell lot of variance. Still, 2.8 PTBB/100 is a very great winrate. ♦

The players are very bad generally (1 TAG + 4 fishes), and it's easy to move up. I started with SH at 10-Oct with about $600, now my BR has grown to $1,550.

Gl Strat on your switch.
I'm new to FL0.5/1 FR at Pokerstars and I have to say it's not that different to 0.25/0.5FL FR so I'll keep playing FR. iF things go as planned I'll move to 1/2FL FR Since pokerstars offer a good number of players there. If what you say is right, then I'll join you at SH. So keep updating your blogs and I'll judge by myself
Again GL to you 2

Damn you guys made me think i should try FL to I have to first learn a lot lol but still i think i should at least give a try FL;)

Good luck at tables,

slikec

Seed:
1/2 fr is where I switched and I actually like fr, but most people are overwhelmingly in favor of SH so I figured I'd give it a weekend. FR is excellent for learning because of the slower pace. And I still think it's enjoyable. I went against my best judgment and switched during a downswing (-169BB over 4400 hands, shitty) but I think will be ok for a weekend SH trial. I don't like to leave a level in the negative, so I won't be giving up FR completely til I have +0.01 cent for FR 1/2.

Anyway, Pokerstars is my main site, too, but their cards are currently treating me badly. Watch out for lengthy and mindblowing downswings. On Stars it happened to me at .1/.2 and 1/2. You can see them on my graph. (Some of the downswing is obviously from my bad play, but then it is compounded by a horrible streak of luck). But overall, I like Stars so maybe I'll see ya around. Is this your handle name on Stars as well?

Slikec:
NL gets the most attention, and probably for good reason, but FL is more fun than I think most people expect. You should try it out, but it is a different approach than NL and I think that frustrates a lot of NL players when they try FL.

GL all.

Well, I tried SH for the weekend and I think I will stick with it. Here's how it went:

Full Tilt on Sat +$23.30:

Pokerstars on Sun -$5.95:

It looks like the Nightmare at Pokerstars Downswing continues, so I will be playing at Full Tilt again for awhile. It was still a profitable weekend, though, at $17.35 .

The low number of hands is due to a few reasons. First, I have been on a downswing so I have been studying as much as I have been playing and whenn I do that I play one table to try to manage every detail of my game and so I can constantly study.

Second, I tried SH for the first tiime and wanted to get a feel for the differences. I started off using the silver SH chart because I wanted to start with more basic concepts and because I haven't printed off the gold SH approx chart yet. I will be doing this soon though, as I have been using the FR approx chart while playing FR.

Unfortunately, there weren't any memorable hands to post during the weekend, at least not that I can recall, obviously.

Speaking of switching things up, I am seriously thinking about switching to NL. There are too many live game opportunities the I am not making the most of around town, including a tournament at a friend's house over the weekend. I don't play in any of them because NL is currently not my game, and even if I did I wouldn't be making the most of them because it's not the game I am studying. The problem is is that I would have to start over at the micros on Stars, which isn't treating me well right now and of course, the money is bad. Like I said, I like FL and enjoyed SH, so I will stick with that for now. I hate to abandon my fellow FL players, but I might have to. If anybody has advice on how to handle this dilema feel free to speak.

On a side note, I practiced some unfortunate money management and had to withdraw $110 from my BR, which drops me down to ~$390. I withdrew 110 from FT because I can get it fast, then I withdrew the same from Stars, where most of my BR is, to cover the 110 in fulltilt. I have to wait up to 15 days to get $$ from Stars. So technically my BR is ~$280, with $110 waiting to be added back.

Also, I mentioned a few days ago about my curiosity towards cash out methods. Currently, poker is my only income (sucks with low BR) and have been curious about effective withdrawal policy. Some of what I've come across so far:

WD 10% of BR per week starting at $1500
WD .5BB/100 hands daily
WD 30% of winnings every two weeks

Anyway, hope everyone had a good weekend.

Well, I have made the tough and unfortunate decision to switch to NL. I did this because of what I previously explained. I have to play the game where the money is and right now that's NL.

I have begun learning SSS and FL is way more fun, but the switch is a business decision.

My goal is to get to 10,000 hands and be in the positive gains column. It would be nice to go to BSS from there, but I don't think I will have learned everything about SSS by then, so it probably won't happen.

Another short term goal of mine is to play through the Stars downswing that followed me to NL.

Since the switch, the Stars downswing continues with bullshit hands like these:

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;MP2$25.00:22/5 /5 /-/0 /0 /-/-;MP3$40.55:58/14 /0 /1.3/20 /0 /-/0 ;CO$15.30:25/88 /8 /3.8/30 /0 /-/57 ;Hero$5.45:///////;[/tg]
0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.62 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BU with J♦, J♥
3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.75, MP3 calls $0.75, CO calls $0.75, Hero raises to $5.45 (All-In), 4 folds, CO calls $4.70.

Flop: ($12.75) 8♦, 9♣, 7♦
Turn: ($12.75) 2♥
River: ($12.75) 3♥ (2 players)

Final Pot: $12.75

Results follow (highlight to see):
Hero shows a pair of jacks (Jd Jh)
CO shows a straight, nine high (5h 6s)

CO wins with a straight, nine high (5h 6s)

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;SB$21.25:25/88 /8 /3.8/30 /0 /-/57 ;Hero$5.00:///////;[/tg]
0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.62 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is BB with J♦, A♠
6 folds, SB calls $0.15, Hero raises to $1.25, SB calls $1.00.

Flop: ($2.50) J♠, Q♠, K♣ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.60, SB calls $1.60.

Turn: ($5.70) 9♠ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.15 (All-In), SB calls $2.15.

River: ($10.00) 8♣ (2 players)

Final Pot: $10.00

Results follow (highlight to see):
Hero shows a pair of jacks (Jd As)
SB shows a straight, king high (Ts 2d)

SB wins with a straight, king high (Ts 2d)

I believe these hands were against the same idiot. That 2nd hand I am not sure was played right, being new to SSS and all. I posted it in the sample hands forum:
AJo NL25 sss

Anyway, the transition isn't going how I would have liked and I miss FL, but this is what I have to do for now.

Another sick hand from Stars:

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;BB$9.50:12/33 /0 /0.5/75 /-/-/67 ;MP3$27.30:12/33 /25 /-/0 /50 /-/-;Hero$5.00:///////;[/tg]
0.1/0.25 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.62 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is CO with J♦, J♣
UTG2 calls $0.25, 2 folds, MP3 raises to $1.25, Hero raises to $5.00 (All-In), 2 folds, BB calls $4.75, 2 folds.

Flop: ($11.60) J♥, T♦, K♣
Turn: ($11.60) 3♥
River: ($11.60) Q♦ (2 players)

Final Pot: $11.60

Results follow (highlight to see):
Hero shows three of a kind, jacks (Jd Jc)
BB shows a straight, ace high (Ac Ks)

BB wins with a straight, ace high (Ac Ks)

Lol, ok. I think I've realized my mistake in switching. It is frustrating to start over learning a different game, especially in the middle of a downswing. Heeding the advice from many, I am sticking to FL, but I am switching to SH as before.

I still believe that my reasons for switching are good. But as I said before, it's frustrating and the timing isn't good. Maybe I just needed to find out for myself and hopefully anyone who reads this will realize that switching games is a decision not to be taken lightly.

I tried SH for a day and It was horrible. I can't see how I could win there. Maybe in few months I'll try it again but before that I'll have to master 1/2FL FR. By the way My screenname on stars is: Seednoir. I'll soon start grinding on FTP and Party Poker as well. I'll check up on you to see your progress. Maybe that will be helpful for me when I decide to try SH.

I'll look for you on Stars, although I may start playing FT more because of the rakeback. The bonuses on stars are a good idea, but I think I make more (at least at my level) on FT. But then again, if the players are worse on Stars then it balances out. I've been debating and the only conclusion I can come to is to play where I'm winning, which is what I've been doing anyway. But if anyone has thoughts on advantages/disadvantages about Stars vs. FT, please post. I'd be interested to hear them.

Speaking of Stars, I just moved to Silver status! I've never moved up before. Since I switch back and forth between them and FT (BR is most important over FPP's, rakeback, bonuses, or any other side goals), moving up the ranks might take me too long to reach the high levels, but we'll see in the future.

Seed: It may be just an upswing, but switching to SH was worth it, and I haven't gone back to FR. The mistake I was referring to was switching to NL SSS, because it was like starting completely over. GL at the tables.

In fact I had a good weekend, I posted it in upswings:

Positivity

I figured that since I posted about my downswing and bad beats, I should post good streaks as well and not just be a neigh-sayer. Hopefully I don't jinx it. Hopefully also the upswing was because of solid play and it will continue. Forever!

BR: $420 (toke up!)

(Unfortunately, I had to wd $221 to take care of needs. It would be ~$650)

Well, I went broke on Full Tilt.

The $221 withdrawals I mentioned before stayed out of the BR. The $110 that was supposed to go back into FT went towards the cell phone bill. I had $40 left in FT, got up to 55, then went broke (bad beat + a little tilt). I now have $0.67 in FT and waiting for ~$10 - 15 in rakeback, so my switch to FT (as my main site) got cut short.

At first, my thoughts were to grind and be very detail oriented on one table at .25/.50 on FT and work my way back up.

The plan, if I could, was to stay at FT. My thinking was this: the rake at each site for the level is the exact same, but there is the 27% rakeback at FT.

Assuming I can play and move up at with the same consistency on each site, FT is the better way to go for now. I have found that there are plenty of fish on FT, at least on .5/1 Sh. The cash bonuses on Stars, I believe are more beneficial at the higher levels where VPPs and FPPs are accumulated at a faster rate and may possibly overtake the rakeback as a benefit at the higher levels. We shall see.

Instead, I am hoping to continue to progress at Poker Stars enough to move up to 1/2 fairly soon, then split the BR back to FT. Then I can take advantage of the rakeback as an extra push for the earlier limits. What good is the rakeback if you're not winning at that site, right?

If anybody sees error in this thinking or agrees and wants to share experiences, feel free. I would like to hear it.

Also, if you want to add, I'm still looking for other's thoughts on cash-out policies. Or, if you know of good discussion elsewhere in the forum you could provide a link if you want. I will do the same, as I think that cash out policy is a slightly underdiscussed aspect of BR management.

I know the articles say to "wait to the higher limits," "it depends on your own goals," and "to work on your game as opposed to trying to make money." This is very good advice, but not very in depth. Of course, I am gold and maybe this subject is discussed in the platinum section. It would still be interesting to hear others approach.

BR: 382.22

I was out two days with a broken power chord for my laptop. Travesty!

Before this happened I multi tabled w 4 tables for the first time and lost ~48 BB. The break may have been a blessing in disguise. Before this I only played 1 or 2 tables (sometimes 3) at a time. I guess I am back to that.

I like to read and study at the same time as playing. I also feel better about optimizing every little decision I possibly can and this is easier while playing only 1 or 2 tables. Therefore, I believe I will stay with this method, but switch to FR BR management while playing SH. That way it won't take me forever to move up.

I am currently at .5/1 FL SH

BR: $428

Hey strat9

I'm interested on your experience on $1/$2 FR. I know everyone talks about moving to SH because of the tightness of the FR game at $1/$2 and over, but whenever I look at these tables on Titan, the number of players to the flop is often over 40%!

What was your experience like on Pokerstars? Is it pretty much the same level of play as $.5/$1 or is it tougher post flop? Clearly pre flop it can still be pretty loose!

GL with the SH game - I guess this is where the real money is made (at least eventually).

I was in the middle of an evil downswing when I switched from 1/2 FR to .5/1 SH, so my experience at that level was kinda tainted. But there were plenty of loose players at 1/2 FR on Stars. I actually liked FR and have thought going back. I'm playing slightly over break even at SH with much bigger swings. If the players per flop is over 40, then that is worth playing. Over all, my experience with FR was a steady climb according to the graph I posted earlier. And there are a lot of crazy players at Stars. GL.