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Overpair on suited flop : analysis of line on flop

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schelleXL
Joined: 05.05.2011

Hello,

I have here a hand which I tried to analyse a bit deeper. It's not a hand that I played but from a fellow blogger. Here is the hand

PokerStars - $0.02 NL FAST - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 10.5 BB (VPIP: 19.19, PFR: 7.07, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 100)
Hero (SB): 115.5 BB
BB: 51 BB (VPIP: 15.63, PFR: 13.54, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 97)
UTG: 189.5 BB (VPIP: 10.94, PFR: 3.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 64)
UTG+1: 109 BB (VPIP: 20.48, PFR: 13.25, 3Bet Preflop: 8.82, Hands: 84)
MP: 103 BB (VPIP: 15.38, PFR: 2.56, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 39)
MP+1: 104 BB (VPIP: 20.15, PFR: 16.56, 3Bet Preflop: 7.80, Hands: 1,092)
MP+2: 100 BB (VPIP: 22.26, PFR: 19.35, 3Bet Preflop: 13.33, Hands: 317)
CO: 607.5 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 4)

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q♠ Q♣

fold, UTG+1 raises to 3.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, CO calls 3.5 BB, BTN calls 3.5 BB, Hero raises to 18 BB, fold, fold, CO calls 14.5 BB, BTN calls 7 BB and is all-in

Flop: (51 BB, 3 players) 8♠ 4♠ J♠
Hero bets 36.5 BB, CO calls 36.5 BB

Turn: (124 BB, 3 players) A♠
Hero bets 61 BB and is all-in, CO calls 61 BB

River: (246 BB, 3 players) K♥

Now the most important for me is the play on the flop. The player has Cbet here but I wasn't convinced it was the correct play so I made this analysis :

1/ Pré he squeezes which is okay but I would have made it bigger (24 BB) because OOP and lot's of calls before me.

2/ The CO is our main target here (BTN is SS and already AI), we only have 5 hands on him so we can't mark him as fish, rock, ...
This is why I gave him a standard Squeeze Call range : TT+, AQ+ ( I include AA/KK because these are also hands which villain may just call)

3/ the flop is suited. A situation which is very well known among us.

On this flop we have
Equity Winst Split
CO 39.41% 38.64% 0.77% { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ }
SB 60.59% 59.82% 0.77% { QsQc }

So EV : 61% * 51 BB - 39 % * 51 BB = +11.22

But if we Cbet here we can expect the villain to only play on with : JJ+, AsKs, AdKs, AhKs, AsKd, AsKh, AsKc, AcKs, AsQd, AsQh, AsQc (25 hands)

against this range we loose a lot of equity :

Equity Winst Split
CO 64.17% 62.86% 1.31% { JJ+, AsKs, AdKs, AhKs, AsKd, AsKh, AsKc, AcKs, AsQd, AsQh, AsQc }
SB 35.83% 34.53% 1.31% { QsQc }

So EV will become :
Villain folds 21 of 46 hands if we cbet = 46 %
=>
EV = 46% * 51 BB + (54% * (36 % * 123 BB - 64 % * 123 BB)) = +4.57

So we lose a lot of EV by Cbetting according to me.

in part 2 I will discuss what happens if we check


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5 replies
schelleXL
Joined: 05.05.2011

So if we check :

4/ Villain can bet with the same range as he would call a cbet with : JJ+, AsKs, AdKs, AhKs, AsKd, AsKh, AsKc, AcKs, AsQd, AsQh, AsQc
in that case it is still EV+ to call : 4.57

5/ but if he would check behind it wouldn't be bad at all, we can see the turn :
=>
5.1 : Turn is a non spade A : 3 cards out of a possible 47 = 6.4 % chance. If that happens our Equity drops to 29 % and this means its -21.42 EV
5.2 : Turn is a non spade K : 3 cards out of a possible 47 = 6.4 % chance. If that happens our Equity drops to 42 % and this means its -8.16 EV
5.3 : Turn is spade A : 1 card out of a possible 47 = 2.1 % chance. If that happens our Equity increases to 80 % and this means its +30.6 EV (yes A♠: is good for us)
5.4 : Turn is spade K : 1 card out of a possible 47 = 2.1 % chance. If that happens our Equity increases to 76 % and this means its +26.52 EV
5.5 : Turn is a spade but not A or K : 7 cards out of a possible 47 = 14.9 % chance. If that happens our Equity increases to 65 % and this means its +15.71 EV
5.6 : Turn is a non spade and also not A or K : multiple options :
-------> if 2,3,5,6,7,9 : 18 cards : Equity : 62 %
-------> if 4 or 8 : 6 cards : Equity : 60.5 %
-------> if T : 3 cards : Equity : 54 %
-------> if J : 3 cards : Equity : 63.5 %
-------> if Q : 2 cards : Equity : 88 %

So on average for any of these 32 cards our Equity will be 62.7 % and this makes it + 12.99 EV

=> I calculated this as 6.4 % * -21.42 EV + 6.4 % * -8.16 EV + 2.1 % * +30.6 EV + 2.1 % * 26.52 EV + 14.9 % * 15.71 EV + 68.1 % * 12.99 EV
= 10.51 EV

So this means for all possible turn cards against his range on the flop our Equity almost does not drop.

We also know a lot better where we stand. We only have 12 scarecards (non spade A/K/J/T) on this boards (=25 %) because all other cards increase our equity on the turn.

So this is why I think a check is better on the flop.

What do you guys think ? And are my calculations correct ?

Gtrz
Schelle


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Gerardus
Joined: 05.11.2009

I played this hand :)

To my opinion (and experience!), it is better to make a bet when you think you're ahead...

I will try to write down in details my thought about this hand tomorrow.

Grtz.


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Gerardus
Joined: 05.11.2009

Sorry for a late answer. I have flu now.

As BTN is silly super shortstacked, we're going to ignore him. Let's assume CO is a standard TAG player, so we give him a calling range of: JJ-88, AKs, AKo --> 40 combinations. When the flop fall - 8♠ 4♠ J♠ - with our Q♣:Q♠: we have a equity of 71%.

So, the question is now: do you want to check/fold, check/call, bet/fold or bet/call AI with your QQ?

Let's dissect his range. What will you do, if the villain has (we are going to play straightforward without making any silly bluff):
JJ (6 combination)? --> that give you 34% equity --> I prefer to make a check then.
TT (6 combination)? --> 93% equity. It is very unlikely that he will make a bluff. So I prefer to make a bet here, as I don't want get a cooler here.
99 (6 combination)? --> the same as TT --> bet!
88 (6 combination)? --> the same as JJ --> check.
Without spade AKo (6 combination)? --> 86% equity. Unlikely that he will make a bluff here, and I don't want give him a free card: bet!
One spade AKo (6 combination)? --> 50% equity, just go all-in. If he directly fold on my bet than that is far, far, far much better!
Non-spade AKs (3 combination)? 86% equity. It is unlikely that he will make a bluff here. As I don't want give a free card: bet!
Spade AKs (1 combination)? 3% equity, check/fold.

So there is 27 combinations, which advocate for betting against 13 combinations for checking. If the villain raises AI on my bet, then it is possible that he has suited-spade AK, but one-spade AKo is also possible. From this view you have still 44% equity. When you add JJ or 88 to his range, you have still got 40% equity. So, I think it is EV+ to make a bet here on the flop.

As the villain just called my bet and at the turn A♠: fell I reduced his range to Ax:Ks:, JJ and 88. From this view, you have 51% equity.

If he has got K♠: (3 combinations): check/fold!
If he has got 88/JJ (12 combinations): bet AI. You don't want to give the villain a free card!

So, 12 combinations advocate for betting against 3 combinations for folding.

This was my thought about this hand. I am intriguing if good/professional players agree with that or not!


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Gerardus
Joined: 05.11.2009

...


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Gerardus
Joined: 05.11.2009

By the way, if we add AA and KK to the calling range of CO: we should still make a bet as we have 27 combinations for betting against 21 combinations for checking/calling/folding. I think it is unlikely that a player will call a squeeze with AQ. Also there is two Q cards removal.


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