4B pots with a LAG

The raise is at any rate far too big to call.

i think that turn bet should be a check behind
there is only one better hand that you can fold (AK) and that does not always fold...

we have showdown value with A high

sometimes we have to ask the question... do i want to bet for value(POT protection comes as a result of that) or do i want to check for STACK protection!
in such big pots with marginal hands we usually want to protect our stack instead of the pot.
this is a concept that i find very intresting and many mistakes can dissapear if this concept is followed
However it is kind of my insight and dont know if it is totaly true, but would like to know if it makes sense?

Originally posted by YohanN7
The raise is at any rate far too big to call.

If you are taking about pre then I have pretty much have to call AQ here otherwise i'm folding too muuch, also aslong as it < 25BB's should be fine (and standard vs anyone 4betting enough) to call AQ there i guess

Postflop the jam I am getting basically 30% pot odds.... i can't think of a range for villian that gives me less than that unless he exactly has AhKh / AhKx in his range

Bonecore, yeah it makes sense if betting is a mistake then i guess the reason i bet it to stop myself facing a bet OTR from this agro guy with KJo and other trashy hands which don't bet which I guess isn't good enough reasoning because if i think thats his range then I should call it - at the time i didn't consider he could be even more agro and shove over it

I meant postflop, but I misread the stacks.

How abut us betting flop after his check?

his agression factor was 19, yeah super small sample I just felt in game suspicious of a check raise vs him and then after double check I felt he was giving up - I would feel more comfortable bet folding on the flop though expecting some strong draws still to be in range whereas i felt they would always lead the turn

I guess the problem with our hand is we do have some showdown value but it will be hard to realise vs an agro guy

I ended up tanking and called it off (pot odds where OK, expecting him never to have a strong or dominating hand, but also for a kind of information too to learn in these spots) - villian showed K6d which had double gutter so read was close but he spiked a 4 OTR .....

So if I checked the turn i guess a decent player could overjam the river which would suck for me because id probably be capped as hell and could be at top of range??? which means i'm far from balanced here - even if he played a half pot bet I'd still feel I needed to call it, maybe i'm a station

so when you say a decent player could overjam the river that is a pretty weird remark.

i am telling you this because i used to make plays like your opponent did ( to x/r all in with air and i was angry when someone did not bet flop or turn and i could not carry out my plan...)
the reason was that fold equity does not work like this!

example:
you have some kind of equity like overcards or a GS, SD, FD and you think your opp is weak.
lets say you have 20% showdown equity. If you think you can compensate 30% equity with your fold equity then you have a clear raise or x/r.
on river you dont have what to improve to and you have purely fold equity, no SD eqiuty

Originally posted by bonecore
so when you say a decent player could overjam the river that is a pretty weird remark.

i am telling you this because i used to make plays like your opponent did ( to x/r all in with air and i was angry when someone did not bet flop or turn and i could not carry out my plan...)
the reason was that fold equity does not work like this!

so lets put it into context, I check back turn and villian bet half pot on the river we probably should call. Now villian overbet jams the river... would you call with AQ? If he knows it or not he putting alot of pressure on a capped range

In game i'd fold, then after i'd realise that basically the top of my range for checking down is AQ because I'd probably bet sets, pairs & draws otf or turn and I'd shove AK pre so these low boards I don't hit well atall with (AJs,KQs,AQ,JTs,99...TT potentially shove vs this guy)