NL16 zoom KQs

The only thing that stop me from x/r the turn would be the fact we are deep. Thus here I prefer calling.

first I don't like too much calling the 3bet OOP with KQs even 160bb deep.
Now the board is pretty much as good as it gets for your cards .... you have so much equity to hitting the nuts I that I would go for it and bet 3/4 pot on the turn and depending on his reaction time (if he calls), a shove on any river or betting only if hitting one of our nuts out and folding the rest.

Thazar, your plan sounds good.

But still I prefer the passive line with calling.

passive line has so less as you rep a draw so much so you are less likely to get paid when you hit (check behind or fold to your bet), you have no fold equity. with the c/r OTR you look so strong that you look a lot less like a draw, you have massive fold equity, if he calls (In most case) he will have a hand that he will want to follow with and you have set yourself for going all in. Most case you can only do it when you hit but in case he looks undecided (timing tells) , we can go all in a try to make him fold on the river.

Calling preflop is fine. Flop check/calling is also fine, imo. With a monster draw on the turn, we can do anything, I would say - donk, check/call or check/raise. I like check/raising the most. If we check/raise, we have to call his shove and if he calls, we have to bet most rivers. Also, it's interesting that he is betting quite small. I expect TT+ to bet bigger, especially on the turn. So, I also expect to have a fold equity there, but I think we have more fold equity with check/raising turn and betting river than leading turn and betting river. We have 37% of equity on the turn vs TT+,AJ and we are putting maximal pressure on QQ+ on the river in case we don't hit. Not sure how the fact that we are 166bb deep impact our decision. Probably we should be more careful with check/raises, but with this hand I think we should be good.

Originally posted by Alleen86
Calling preflop is fine. Flop check/calling is also fine, imo. With a monster draw on the turn, we can do anything, I would say - donk, check/call or check/raise. I like check/raising the most. If we check/raise, we have to call his shove and if he calls, we have to bet most rivers. Also, it's interesting that he is betting quite small. I expect TT+ to bet bigger, especially on the turn. So, I also expect to have a fold equity there, but I think we have more fold equity with check/raising turn and betting river than leading turn and betting river. We have 37% of equity on the turn vs TT+,AJ and we are putting maximal pressure on QQ+ on the river in case we don't hit. Not sure how the fact that we are 166bb deep impact our decision. Probably we should be more careful with check/raises, but with this hand I think we should be good.

I kind of disagree there, although as you said, donk, check/call and check raise all have a +ev outcome, for every hand you play you need to play with the max ev in mind and, although I'll need a bit more time than I have right now to demonstrate it mathematically, I ma pretty sure than c/r has the max ev in this case.

Originally posted by thazar

Originally posted by Alleen86
Calling preflop is fine. Flop check/calling is also fine, imo. With a monster draw on the turn, we can do anything, I would say - donk, check/call or check/raise. I like check/raising the most. If we check/raise, we have to call his shove and if he calls, we have to bet most rivers. Also, it's interesting that he is betting quite small. I expect TT+ to bet bigger, especially on the turn. So, I also expect to have a fold equity there, but I think we have more fold equity with check/raising turn and betting river than leading turn and betting river. We have 37% of equity on the turn vs TT+,AJ and we are putting maximal pressure on QQ+ on the river in case we don't hit. Not sure how the fact that we are 166bb deep impact our decision. Probably we should be more careful with check/raises, but with this hand I think we should be good.

I kind of disagree there, although as you said, donk, check/call and check raise all have a +ev outcome, for every hand you play you need to play with the max ev in mind and, although I'll need a bit more time than I have right now to demonstrate it mathematically, I ma pretty sure than c/r has the max ev in this case.

I also wrote that I like check/raising the most.

Why not xr the flop then? We can continue betting turn with a club or broadway.

Originally posted by nitrol
Why not xr the flop then? We can continue betting turn with a club or broadway.

Many players cbet A2C OTF. so if you CR you are likely to get a fold or a call and then shutdown.

By calling the flop you might get a free river and if you hit your straight or as in this case the first part your backdoor FD, C/R look super strong, and have a really good fold equity while when you get a call you still have loads of outs and are set for an AI.