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AA vs turn shove

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ferdhy5
Joined: 21.04.2014

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools by CardRunners - Hand Details

BB: $1.96 (98 bb)
UTG: $2.05 (102.5 bb)
MP: $0.45 (22.5 bb)
CO: $4.30 (215 bb) VPIP: 26; PFR: 16.5; AF: 2.8; 129 hands.
BTN: $2.95 (147.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $2.86 (143 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A A
2 folds, CO raises to $0.08, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.24, BB folds, CO calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.50) 4 3 Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.35, CO calls $0.35

Turn: ($1.20) T (2 players)
Hero bets $0.72, CO raises to $3.36, Hero folds

Results:

Spoiler

$2.64 pot ($0.17 rake)
Final Board: 4 3 Q T
CO mucked and won $2.47 ($1.16 net)
Hero mucked A A and lost (-$1.31 net)

Standard raise preflop. Value bets on the flop and turn. Then villain shoves... he might have made his set and a shove makes sense on such a drawy board. If it was OTF it would look more like a bluff but OTT it seems believable to me. So I fold. Does that makes sense given all I have invested already or should I have called?


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36 replies
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

No need to call villains raise imo. Folding is fine when we get raised OTT and we hold only single pair.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Again the Baluga Theoremin use. You can not mistake to fold vs a turn raise with less than top2P+.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

Good fold, ferdhy5.
If u didnt saw villain doing any crazy stuff before... yes, its way more likely that u are behind here.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Is here pleno's advice applicable - xr turn, jam river? or villain is not that wide as in that hand?


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xin1575
Joined: 22.10.2015

Looking at the pot numbers, you have $1.55 left in your stack with a pot of $3.47 after villain puts you all-in. It definitely seems like villain is strong here, but with those odds (2.2:1), is it okay to call the shove? Do we have enough equity? I don't have my equity calculator so I'm not able to run any calculations, but curious if this would alter our decision any.


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

Good point. However, I also think it is indeed better to fold in this situation. There are not many hands in villain's range we can beat. Not sure if another betting line OOP would yield any different results based on villain's range.


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NLgr1nd3r
Joined: 24.01.2014

Originally posted by nitrol
Again the Baluga Theoremin use. You can not mistake to fold vs a turn raise with less than top2P+.

+1 Mostly you ran into a set here when he raises OTT. Well played imo.


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Alleen86
Joined: 27.05.2010

Definitelly folding those spots is the best we can do in the long run. Players will very rarely bluff there. Something which I also have to remind myself is that we should use that fact vs regulars and semi-bluff or bluff raise turns quite often at right spots.


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Alleen86
Joined: 27.05.2010

Originally posted by nitrol
Is here pleno's advice applicable - xr turn, jam river? or villain is not that wide as in that hand?

That player was looser and more aggressive, at least he looked so in just 3 hands. As this hand is concerned I think that betting is the way to go because if he has Qx and flushdraw he wil definitelly call the turn while might check back if we check and get a free card. Even if he bets those, he most likelly won't continue vs our raise, so we get the same profit as if we bet and he calls.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Where is the border line for this move? How loose the villain should be?


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Alleen86
Joined: 27.05.2010

Originally posted by nitrol
Where is the border line for this move? How loose the villain should be?

I believe that pleno was referring to very loose/aggressive players, maybe those who play like 40/25 and looser.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Or even looser- above 50 vpip and a solid gap between vpip and pfr...


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Alleen86
Joined: 27.05.2010

Originally posted by nitrol
Or even looser- above 50 vpip and a solid gap between vpip and pfr...

Yeah, probably. I'm not sure of exact numbers, but the player should be out of the line.


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Sucks to fold Aces here. But it's a good fold when you get raised on the turn and you've only got one pair.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by nitrol
Or even looser- above 50 vpip and a solid gap between vpip and pfr...

Yeah, probably. I'm not sure of exact numbers, but the player should be out of the line.

I think aggressiveness posflop is way more important than looseness.
For what pleno1 advocates work, the guy need to stab. A guy who is somewhat loose, but not that aggressive... this might not work.


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

Originally posted by Alleen86
Something which I also have to remind myself is that we should use that fact vs regulars and semi-bluff or bluff raise turns quite often at right spots.

I m still trying to find that sweet spot. Sometimes I do this too much, sometimes way too little.
Any tip?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by Alleen86

Originally posted by nitrol
Or even looser- above 50 vpip and a solid gap between vpip and pfr...

Yeah, probably. I'm not sure of exact numbers, but the player should be out of the line.

I think aggressiveness posflop is way more important than looseness.
For what pleno1 advocates work, the guy need to stab. A guy who is somewhat loose, but not that aggressive... this might not work.

ok, but still villain has to be with a very wide range.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by Alleen86
Something which I also have to remind myself is that we should use that fact vs regulars and semi-bluff or bluff raise turns quite often at right spots.

I m still trying to find that sweet spot. Sometimes I do this too much, sometimes way too little.
Any tip?

Whatch you opponents closely.


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martinstids
Joined: 02.01.2010

stop using advanced strategys at nl2. If u have AA, dont fold like this with dry board with lot of draws that fish can overplay. You lost more then 30% of your stack for nothink. Even if he has smt, u still have outs but u are loosing super much if he overplays Q and other crap that fishes can have


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