SH Zoom AQo, SB vs BB, Calling 3bet

I will fold here. Board is connecting with him and we should not be happy even to see an A on turn...

I'd 4 or fold pre there (given the villain, I'm turning AQo into a 4bet bluff mostly). Effective stacks are easily deep enough for a 4bluff-fold. Calling - never. AQ is a gross hand to see a flop with OOP in a 3bet pot.

As played preflop, on the flop I think its a fold. If you do decide to continue I'd play a Scandinavian float line. You could check-raise the flop as an old fashioned info raise, to make worse fold and take it down, but that's very streaky - and if you think you are in front of his range with AQ on that particular board, you should have 4bet preflop for value anyway.

I agree with what Jaissica and nitrol said. 4bet pre.

I think that you can not raise this flop because by raising you are representing a really narrow range.

If villain has a wide 3 bet range and large cbet range then I might float on the flop and try to take the pot down ott or otr.

There is one thing which bothers me about 4betting pre: When he 3bets, I believe AQ is ahead of his 3bet range (thus ahead on this flop). But if I 4bet, I don't expect to be ahead of his calling or shoving range. So, can I 4bet for value when I don't expect to be called by worse? Also, do we actually have a raise/calling range in that spot?

Since he bets the flop so small, maybe we can call once and bet the river if he checks back the turn. In the hand I decided to fold the flop.

Check/raising sounds interesting. True that mainly worse hands will fold, but at least we won't be bluffed on the turn/river. On the other hand, if we think that he will bluff turn/river, we can just bluffcatch.

If you think that he is that tight on flatting 4 bets and will fold often you could 4bet almost any two cards and it will be+EV?

AQ hand blocks villains AA AK QQ so he is even more likely to fold to your 4bet. +++EV IF he folds too much. And its better to 4bet these hands so your 4bet is not just KK AA

Originally posted by marsa08
If you think that he is that tight on flatting 4 bets and will fold often you could 4bet almost any two cards and it will be+EV?

AQ hand blocks villains AA AK QQ so he is even more likely to fold to your 4bet. +++EV IF he folds too much. And its better to 4bet these hands so your 4bet is not just KK AA

So, as I said, I can't 4bet AQo for value then, right? I understand the point here: if he is not continuing wide range vs 4bets, why not to 4bet bluff AQo instead of calling, because it will be profitable by default and we won't need to be in ugly spots postflop. Clear!

I was just wondering would it theoretically be more profitable to call hand like AQo and keep his wide 3bet range in the hand. I supose it would if we have a good postflop play in 3bet pots OOP without initiative. Do I have it? I don't think so.

When u think ur opponent is tight and will fold alot to 4bets u can do the following: Flat all ur value hands and 4bet all ur bluffs. Because these are the micros i wouldn't worry too much about balancing in these spots.

When u expect he will continue with something like JJ+ and AK ur turning your AQo into a bluff. Wich is a waste of good value hand.

For me, AQ is a call to 3b here. We have equity and turning it into a bluff is not ok for me.
We dominate the bluff range of villain too.

Firing some 4B bluffs expands your 4B range and gets you future value when you really do have the biscuits.

AQ and KQ are the perfect hands to turn into 4B bluffs as they block a lot of shoving hands. By 4-bluffing you do extract value from worse hands as they often fold their equity. BB is probably restealing at least 10% here, and AQ is a 3.5% range hand. Villain probably wont continue without a 2.5% range hand. That's three quarters of his range we fold out completely, and AQ only has good equity against the weaker Ax hands; in terms of the complete range, by making him fold we make him fold around 40% pot equity.

       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    59.79%  53.87%   5.91% { AQo }
MP3    40.21%  34.30%   5.91% { JJ-88, AQs-A7s, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, AQo-ATo }

Maybe the villain continues with JJ or AQs, maybe he only continues with KK+, it really depends on the villain - but this illustrates that making players fold worse hands doesn't mean you have lost value. Remember that taking value isn't just about getting paid. The existing pot is value too.

KQ is good for 4b bluff but AQ is a call. AJ/AT can be considered 4b bluff hands.

Originally posted by Alleen86

So, as I said, I can't 4bet AQo for value then, right? I

You can 4 bet AQ for value if your opponent has wide 4 bet flat range. But as you said that he is too tight on 4bets, then you can 4bet to make him fold and it is +ev.

I don't like to flat AQ here OOP without Initiative. It is really hard to play if we don't hit.

Also, if you do not believe me that flatting these hands are bad OOP, please filter your hem2/pt database for the times that you flat OOP and see how much you are winning/losing.

Then filter your database to the times you 4bet OOP and see how much you are losing/winning.

You can also filter those same spots for the AQ hand exactly and see that 4 betting is a lot more profitable.

130k hands seems to be too small sample to look at 4bet oop with a specific hand filters but seems to me that I have lost more by 4betting AQo oop than flatting it.

For me AQo is a standard flat from SB agaist 3bet.

What makes me like the 4bet line more in this spot is the position.

Originally posted by Jaissica
Firing some 4B bluffs expands your 4B range and gets you future value when you really do have the biscuits.

AQ and KQ are the perfect hands to turn into 4B bluffs as they block a lot of shoving hands. By 4-bluffing you do extract value from worse hands as they often fold their equity. BB is probably restealing at least 10% here, and AQ is a 3.5% range hand. Villain probably wont continue without a 2.5% range hand. That's three quarters of his range we fold out completely, and AQ only has good equity against the weaker Ax hands; in terms of the complete range, by making him fold we make him fold around 40% pot equity.

       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    59.79%  53.87%   5.91% { AQo }
MP3    40.21%  34.30%   5.91% { JJ-88, AQs-A7s, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, AQo-ATo }

Maybe the villain continues with JJ or AQs, maybe he only continues with KK+, it really depends on the villain - but this illustrates that making players fold worse hands doesn't mean you have lost value. Remember that taking value isn't just about getting paid. The existing pot is value too.

Interesting post, I would say. People really forget that making worse hands fold pre has also value.
And, by the nature of the game, we oop ll not use our entire equity since villain can make it difficult using the position advantage properly against us.

Folding worse hands has value but we want them to stay in as we beat and dominate them.
The main purpose of a bluff is make BETTER hands to fold...