Shoving JJ on the flop

There's no need to outplace worse hand than yours. Actually your goal is to avoid that. Let's look at his possible range. He could have had fd, sd, u don't wanna get rid of these (low possibility he calls with them), sets obviously flat. Thus, simply calling him down enables bluffs, draws to stay in his range

First, I do not like 3 betting the UTG with this hand unless there's a reason for that.
Second, is villain pot donking on flop?

I have converted the hand for you. This way your hand is easier to read.
I recommend using a hand converter like weaktight next time to convert hands with or read our https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=267242 thread for all the information you need how to post a hand the appropriate way.

Cheers,
SDK1987

I do not like the push.

I would not 3bet JJ vs UTG opener. When he donks OTF you can't rule sets or bigger overpairs out. He can also have a draw.
I think I would not even raise this flop when we consider that he opened from UTG and called your big 3bet.
If you raise this, definitely go with the standard sizing. By shoving you isolate yourself vs sets and miss the opportunity to get more value from his draws and other weaker hands.

Hold on guys. With 49c in the pot and the 46c bet by the villain, the effective pot with the hero to act will be $1.41.

The villain's stack (I always think removing the names is good form in these kind of posts) remaining is $1.38. So a shove IS the standard sizing especially with two cards to come - it's less than a pot sized shove.

More interestingly, if you guys want to flat this, what will you do if an A, K or Q hits the table OTT? Are you going to passively call the probably pot sized shove OTT on a brick? We almost never improve so these are important questions.

I think its a shove or fold flop, and I'm shoving with Apollo every time. 3betting JJ preflop basically commits you to it.

Villain donks in 3bet pot. He can have 77,TT,QQ,KK,AA. Best case scenario is that he has only a flush draw. With low flush draw he has already almost 40% equity against us and with FD with overcards he has 55%. If villain has QQ+,TT,77,AsKs,AsQs,KsQs,AsJs,AsTs,9h8h,9s8s , we are dead. We have 18% in that case.

So what's our overall plan here? Let's say the board remains as it is no matter what we do.

1) We flat his open pre. He donks 15 cents OTF. In this case we can peel one and reevaluate (In which case we will fold a lot, because we don't like any spade, Q, K, A. In the odd occasion even a 6 or a J(!) doesn't give us the nuts)
2) We play pre as played. If we call the potdonk, it means we have to call further unless mentioned A, K, Q or spade comes (roughly 23 cards out of 37 left in the deck) which means we are folding more than 50% of the times we call flop. I would say no matter what the case, we hate this spot even if we are holding QQ+.

Villain is pot donking mw - we fold.

Originally posted by nitrol
Villain is pot donking mw - we fold.

Agree. If we have no reads that suggest we should do something else, I would fold here. In the very best, and highly unlikely, scenario we have only 60%. If villain has even FD with overs we are already losing.

Fold>Push>Call

Sounds good.

I like calling here more, only better hands call us i think, except if opponent is mega fish and calling with ATs or something..

Originally posted by AXSPIRAL
I like calling here more, only better hands call us i think, except if opponent is mega fish and calling with ATs or something..

Put villain on a range. How many weaker hands he is going to donk pot?
When you call OTF what do you do OTT if villain bets again? You have no clue where you stand and I think we can't call a second bet with JJ.
Big part of the deck are not good for us, we don't want to see any Q,K,A or spade.

What nitrol said "Fold>Push>Call" is good imo.

Originally posted by AXSPIRAL
I like calling here more, only better hands call us i think, except if opponent is mega fish and calling with ATs or something..

Calling leaves you with a less than pot bet stack on turn... Not good to do that.