3bet SB vs CO

AJo is in my calling range COvsSB. If you 3bet it, it is a bluff 3bet so no need to worry too much about getting dominated. You play this one carefully postflop even if you hit.

Originally posted by la55i
AJo is in my calling range COvsSB. If you 3bet it, it is a bluff 3bet so no need to worry too much about getting dominated. You play this one carefully postflop even if you hit.

Yeah i agree, but witch is better 3bet, calling or folding. Its in your calling range, but what is your plan "check fold if missed" Is this your plan? If so wouldnt it be better to fold or 3bet? if so witch one? I guess we could make the decision based on the players stats, but in this case, i didnt have any.

So my main question is here, what do we do with AJo in this position facing an unknown player, personally im leaning more towards folding, since we do not know where we stand, and are gambling.

What do you think?

It all depends how you defend your SB.
I prefer to have a calling range and AJo is there.
If you prefer to defend with 3b or fold - then it is a 3b.

Do not feel uncomfortable if you get called. There are many flops you can barrel but still you should be very cautious if you hit TP.

Originally posted by FrozenElf

Originally posted by la55i
AJo is in my calling range COvsSB. If you 3bet it, it is a bluff 3bet so no need to worry too much about getting dominated. You play this one carefully postflop even if you hit.

Yeah i agree, but witch is better 3bet, calling or folding. Its in your calling range, but what is your plan "check fold if missed" Is this your plan? If so wouldnt it be better to fold or 3bet? if so witch one? I guess we could make the decision based on the players stats, but in this case, i didnt have any.

So my main question is here, what do we do with AJo in this position facing an unknown player, personally im leaning more towards folding, since we do not know where we stand, and are gambling.

What do you think?

If you lean towards folding - then 3b is right for you. 3b bluff.
You have initiative and can cbet or if the flop misses you completely or is a bad board - you can xf.

Well it depends a lot of flop but I would be cbetting it very often. But if our plan is to check/fold everytime we miss (which is not so great plan) it would be better to fold pre flop. We are OOP so I like to 3bet bluff more suited connectors and if we don't hit the flop we can just give up with them. Bluff 3betting is often profitable preflop but we don't have to make any fancy moves postflop and make it -EV.

We should barrel most flops. The only boards we will give up are the too connected ones.
We should take advantage of our initiative.

Originally posted by nitrol
We should barrel most flops. The only boards we will give up are the too connected ones.
We should take advantage of our initiative.

I think we really need to think about our opponant's range when were cbetting, were going to get called often on almost everyflop that isnt a A or K, in this case i would check an A high flop, and go from there, given the positions, SB vs CO, were going to get called light, and floated on a lot of flops, i guess this depends on player types, hand ranges etc, i beleive this is a very dynamic situation

Axx , Kxx , Qxx , Jxx dry flops are perfect.

I agree with nitro. Dry flops and if we hit anything, like even BDFD or something we can cbet. If we are not cbetting we can't always x/f because that would be exploitable.

I dont like calling in this spot because we are OOP so its hard to play postflop+ then we dont have initiative + BB can squeeze wide as co and you have semi weak ranges. + if you call bb can call too and you are first to act in multiway pot with a medicore hand.

Id prefer to 3bet or fold on this spot.

Originally posted by marsa08
I dont like calling in this spot because we are OOP so its hard to play postflop+ then we dont have initiative + BB can squeeze wide as co and you have semi weak ranges. + if you call bb can call too and you are first to act in multiway pot with a medicore hand.

Id prefer to 3bet or fold on this spot.

I agree with you, its either a fold or 3bet.

Lets discuss when to fold or 3bet, i beleive somthing like this,

Nit-3bet
Tag-fold
Lag-3bet
CS-fold

What about stats, what should we change to different stats, for example should we 3bet, a stat of 67% FT3B stat, the only thing is we would need to remember that in this spot that, villain would continuie with a strong range so we need to be very carefull postflop.

Any other ideas?

If you 3b then you 3bet. No fold.

How come we're not 3-betting for value?
If villans a fish he could call with AT,A9s etc?

How did you decide that villain is a fish?

Originally posted by swampyking
How come we're not 3-betting for value?
If villans a fish he could call with AT,A9s etc?

Maybe because villain is unknown here?

Originally posted by marsa08
I dont like calling in this spot because we are OOP so its hard to play postflop+ then we dont have initiative + BB can squeeze wide as co and you have semi weak ranges. + if you call bb can call too and you are first to act in multiway pot with a medicore hand.

Id prefer to 3bet or fold on this spot.

Wel, basically you are right. When we call we face those problems. But it is still not a reason not to call imo. Those would apply in any hand that we play oop. If you want to 3bet AJo for these reasons what you do with KQs,ATs,AQp,QJs etc.. You will end up 3betting almost 100%, calling only 66-TT. Better to learn how to play postflop

AJo is decent hand vs CO opening range. BB doesn't squeeze us that often so no need to worry about that too much.

Originally posted by swampyking
How come we're not 3-betting for value?
If villans a fish he could call with AT,A9s etc?

This is what were discussing, if villain is a a weaker player then we could 3bet for value for sure, but only if he calls 3bets with a weak range, if he only plays back at 3bets with a range like this, 99+ AQ+ then were screwed if we 3bet, so we should call, but fold if BB loves to squeeze, This is what i mean by this hand isnt as plain and simple to play, there are a lot of factors that change how to play this particular spot.

I also think we should fold vs an unknown, for this reason, we dont know anything about thew player, his hand range or wat range he would call a 3bet with, we have no clear idea of what to do postflop, we will make many mistakes, witch will lead to frustration.

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by marsa08
I dont like calling in this spot because we are OOP so its hard to play postflop+ then we dont have initiative + BB can squeeze wide as co and you have semi weak ranges. + if you call bb can call too and you are first to act in multiway pot with a medicore hand.

Id prefer to 3bet or fold on this spot.

AJo is decent hand vs CO opening range. BB doesn't squeeze us that often so no need to worry about that too much.

I went onto equilab and got the equity AJ vs a 40% witch i beleive is very loose.

Equity Win Tie

CO 39.25% 37.15% 2.10% { 44+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A3o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+ }

SB 60.75% 58.64% 2.10% { AJs, AJo }

As you can see, chance to win is only 58%, that isn't really huge, were only marginally in front, and two other things to take into consideration, we are out of position, and we dont have initiative, witch is really bad with 58% i i don't think calling is great, but not exactly terrible either, if the player is an aggressive player who loves to bluff postflop, i think calling is the best choice,

Those equity calculations (AJo vs 40%) are not that important because we are not going all-in pre. We can outplay villain postflop.
We call pre. We probably call OTF if he cbets and if he doesn't we stab.
This is NL2, not rocket science. You guys are overthinking this one.

With AJo we have that ~61%. With AQs it is ~64%. Not much difference. CO opening range is quite wide and we have to defend something. I would bluff 3bet speculative hands like suited connectors and my value 3bet range would be tighter than AJo. AJo is in my calling range and it is not a problem.

Anything above 50.01% favours us and is worth playing. It is ahead of villain's range and must be played.