AQo utg vs 3 from cut off

Would be folding from on the flop at least. If you hit an A, goo chance CO has AK, AJ or AT and dominates anyway, high chance he has ha hands such as KQ, QJ so you'll still be dominated.

The only card you want to see is a K, other than that I'd rather check it down or throw it out.

Originally posted by SuperChompa
CO: 100.4 BB (VPIP: 29.62, PFR: 28.46, 3Bet Preflop: 13.33, Hands: 272)

Vs a tight player or any good reg I'd fold flop but vs that kind of lagtard I'd call all the way and accept my fate.
(It's often the right way to play vs lagtards, you'd be surprised.)

Folding pre is the best option. As played if we call a bigger turn bet than on the flop, probably makes sense to call the river if you think he's very aggro postflop.

Overfolding is often the best option vs a nit, indeed, but very rarely vs a lag ♦

I think this hand is a bit too weak to call vs 3bet from UTG since villain should 3bet us quite tight. This hand would be a standard 4bet bluff for me.

As played, normally folding OTF might be wise since even if we hit we might be behind, but this villain looks aggressive and 3bets a lot so I probably would keep on calling (at least flop and turn, river is close to folding but on the other hand we have to win only 25%).

I don't know about you, but UTG I open about 17%, Snowie too, and Janda 14,5%.
Go ahead, open that much and fold anything until AQo and tell me it's not overfolding. (Janda and Snowie call the 3bet every day with AQo)
By the way I don't see what people have with bluff4betting AQo, I think it's an awful spew.

I don't know about you, but UTG I open about 17%, Snowie too, and Janda 14,5%.
Go ahead, open that much and fold anything until AQo and tell me it's not overfolding.

I open 14% from UTG. Didn't get what you mean.

(Janda and Snowie call the 3bet every day with AQo)
By the way I don't see what people have with bluff4betting AQo, I think it's an awful spew.

They can call that 3bet if they want to. I play tighter against 3bets from UTG and OOP. If my range is constructed differently, it doesn't mean yours is superior
Guys should usually 3bet UTG a bit tighter and I feel like with AQo we potentially just lose more postflop. It is difficult to get away when we hit an ace.

Now, I think you miss a big piece of info here. Villain has shown aggro tendencies as he has 3B 13.33 for 272 hands.
If AQo is a standard 4b bluff vs unknown then AQo is a call vs this guy.
As played, we can fold flop.

Originally posted by la55i

I open 14% from UTG. Didn't get what you mean.

You open (relatively) a lot and call a 3bet with nearly no hand, how do you name that ?

Originally posted by la55i
They can call that 3bet if they want to. I play tighter against 3bets from UTG and OOP. If my range is constructed differently, it doesn't mean yours is superior
Guys should usually 3bet UTG a bit tighter and I feel like with AQo we potentially just lose more postflop. It is difficult to get away when we hit an ace.

It's not about having "superior" ranges, it's about having "consistant" ones !
I'm open to different possibilities but that doesn't mean some things aren't just clearly unsound.

Why wanting to get away with an ace ? Are you really sure people only 3bet you with AK (and QQ+) when you open UTG ? If yes, you play a really weird place and you should table select more

So I'm telling on one hand calling a 3bet with AQo is a sound standard for most players in most places and you should have a pecular reason not to do so, and not the contrary, and on the other hand here we are obviously against a lagtard versus which a fold somewhere in this hand should be out of option.
(And certainly not folding that brick river which is good for us lol)

People really don't know how to play 3bet pots it's insane, I suppose the old school TAG theory (aka over leaked playing style for dummies) is to blame for this, I still hear lots of people saying things like they don't wanna play 3bet pots OOP.
Well, good luck and have fun playing poker in 2016 (not to talk about the future) without !
Poker has become more loose and complicated, we have to deal with it, even at micros.

People still 3bet UTG tighter. Sure they have a lot of other stuff also than just AK. But when we just keep on calling and get dominated by AK, we lose so much that it makes AQ less prifitable.

I 4bet KK+ as value, AQ as bluff and then I call 88+,AK..
And it has been working for me well. My UTG winrate is decent and it is very good also in the pots where I called a 3bet.
At some point I have been calling AQ too but surprisingly those were the hands that I have lost the most with. Small sample though.

Can you filter out your database and tell me your UTG winrate when called a 3bet and how your AQ hands are doing? And how many hands. Maybe I have just too small sample and maybe I should start calling AQ too

Thanks guys ! Yeah I agree that hand would better be either folded early or calling all the way. I really think I spewed because I stayed halfway of it.
@la55i I almost never 4 bet bluff, I mostly play nl5, you think I should make a range of 4 bet bluff?
@FLoxy Yes I might be ahead, but I was like I only see hands that beat me on the river that I didn t dare to click call

You should have a bluff range, even at nl5.

I would say that NL5 regulars are already good enough to 3bet bluff. This means that you can have a 4bet bluff range.

About the hand: You should have default ranges vs unknowns that you can change during the game. Vs villain that 3b a lot you can expand your calling range accordingly. If he is 3b less - you can decrease it.

@SuperChompa : you don't "see" hands vs a lag, he has too many, that's the point, folding TPTK shouldn't cross your mind very often.

@la55i : I honestly don't know my tracker well enough to do what you're asking me to ♦ (It's one of my biggest leaks I'm currently trying to use it more but I find it so boring..)
Anyway I already told you that I'm not a big believer in stats. It's easy to think something is good looking from stats when something could be even better from the big picture.
All I can say about that AQo thing is that if you really want empirical proofs I know winning players (better than me of course, I wouldn't be a good example) from different stakes that do it and that it has become such a standard that I happened to win the french "Guess the hand" challenge from last week with exactly that spot, the french coach Ilares open UTG with AQo, call a 3bet from CO and says it's only standard.

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY
I don't know about you, but UTG I open about 17%, Snowie too, and Janda 14,5%.

Snowie folds AQo UTG vs COs 3bet. In fact Snowie folds down to 5.5% of hands in this spot because there are 3 other players that can wake up with a hand and help you defend.

However, Snowie does in fact 4bet AQo occasionally (6% of the time) vs CO. As you saw in the hand it is really hard to defend vs the 3bet oop with a call. V can steal a ton of pots from us with the worse hand postflop. Against someone who 3bets to liberally AQo becomes a perfect 4bet candidate. You block 12Combos of AK,AA,AQs,QQ. All of these are likely to defend vs your 4bet. If the hand gets to postflop the hand plays itself with a very low SPR.

Once you check that flop, you should fold right away. Mostly reverse implied odds are in sight. Don't believe you can make much money hitting an A or a Q (6 of the "outs") or even hitting a miracle K (4 outs). Only in the case he has a set and you hit the K, stacks are going in (which is pretty much what is needed to get any sort of implied odds for that draw). Then he'd have a redraw with 10 outs to beat you.

Thus it is a trivial fold (as played) if you play odds and outs. In order to call, you pretty much have to bluff expensively (and successfullly) on turn or river.

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY

Originally posted by SuperChompa
CO: 100.4 BB (VPIP: 29.62, PFR: 28.46, 3Bet Preflop: 13.33, Hands: 272)

Vs a tight player or any good reg I'd fold flop but vs that kind of lagtard I'd call all the way and accept my fate.
(It's often the right way to play vs lagtards, you'd be surprised.)

No, that's not a LAG-tard. That is a NIT:D

Seriously, a good such player (those stats) is your nightmare opponent, at least if they have position. Against one of those I'd fold preflop. They splash around plenty in position preflop and on the flop, but when the big bets come, they are very rational. They trick you into playing too loose for the big money.

I actually need a fish or a predictable reasonable player to call preflop.

Originally posted by nitrol
Now, I think you miss a big piece of info here. Villain has shown aggro tendencies as he has 3B 13.33 for 272 hands.
If AQo is a standard 4b bluff vs unknown then AQo is a call vs this guy.
As played, we can fold flop.

Indeed. Vs this guy, raise or fold preflop.

EDIT: I see now we disagree. Why the HECK would you want to give the tard a free flop by calling? He can hit his supposed trash.