A2 turn decision

BTN has a wide range and can be barreling crap. Yea your top pair has a weak kicker but it is still a top pair. I would say it is worth 2 streets if villain doesn't go crazy with the bet sizes. So for me this would be quite standard call.

Firstly I wanted to write something like la55i mentioned, but then I analyzed it in equilab and I think it is a (clear) fold. But also depends on your calling ranges and on Villain stats. Actually on which river card would we call another barrel? On 2c,2h (we will not very happy) I think we have not any clear out, especially if he would bet really big OTR. I would rather call some FD here.
And on runout like this Villain should be careful about bluff betting multiple streets.

Originally posted by la55i
BTN has a wide range and can be barreling crap. Yea your top pair has a weak kicker but it is still a top pair. I would say it is worth 2 streets if villain doesn't go crazy with the bet sizes. So for me this would be quite standard call.

+ 1 and the board is very drawish...so he could bet all his draws.

Originally posted by pokerboy198229

Originally posted by la55i
BTN has a wide range and can be barreling crap. Yea your top pair has a weak kicker but it is still a top pair. I would say it is worth 2 streets if villain doesn't go crazy with the bet sizes. So for me this would be quite standard call.

+ 1 and the board is very drawish...so he could bet all his draws.

But lets say you call and the river completes some of the draw, what is the best? Donk big to turn our hand in to a bluff or maybe x/raise (althought he might not bet all his Ax hands). Or just check/fold?

Originally posted by MatoStar
Firstly I wanted to write something like la55i mentioned, but then I analyzed it in equilab and I think it is a (clear) fold. But also depends on your calling ranges and on Villain stats. Actually on which river card would we call another barrel? On 2c,2h (we will not very happy) I think we have not any clear out, especially if he would bet really big OTR. I would rather call some FD here.
And on runout like this Villain should be careful about bluff betting multiple streets.

Could you tell us how did you analyze this exactly? Raw equities don't matter that much unless villain is clearly just dominating us but as the ranges are wide and board offers many draws and villain is IP I think he could be double barreling many weaker hands. Also whether we can call a third barrel OTR or not isn't super important. Quite often we will see a showdown where we beat villains weaker pair or a missed draw.

Originally posted by pokerboy198229

Originally posted by pokerboy198229

Originally posted by la55i
BTN has a wide range and can be barreling crap. Yea your top pair has a weak kicker but it is still a top pair. I would say it is worth 2 streets if villain doesn't go crazy with the bet sizes. So for me this would be quite standard call.

+ 1 and the board is very drawish...so he could bet all his draws.

But lets say you call and the river completes some of the draw, what is the best? Donk big to turn our hand in to a bluff or maybe x/raise (althought he might not bet all his Ax hands). Or just check/fold?

If he fires a big barrel OTR I think we can just give up.

I would consider 3betting preflop. As played, I would call once more OTT. He can be barreling a lot of stuff, the ranges are wide.

Originally posted by Dandiiik
I would consider 3betting preflop. As played, I would call once more OTT. He can be barreling a lot of stuff, the ranges are wide.

Yeah, same here. I think we can 3bet preflop.

Just call two fold river. We could 3bet pre.
It is a pretty wet board so I don't think folding is a terrible play but as a general rule if you have top pair it's often good enough to call twice.

About 3betting, it would be quite standard yes. Vs 3x open this would be default 3bet for me too. But when villain opens smaller we can start calling wider and make our 3bet range a bit wider so then I would tend to call this sometimes. It is a small adjustment and doesn't matter that much. Both options are fine imo.

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by MatoStar
Firstly I wanted to write something like la55i mentioned, but then I analyzed it in equilab and I think it is a (clear) fold. But also depends on your calling ranges and on Villain stats. Actually on which river card would we call another barrel? On 2c,2h (we will not very happy) I think we have not any clear out, especially if he would bet really big OTR. I would rather call some FD here.
And on runout like this Villain should be careful about bluff betting multiple streets.

Could you tell us how did you analyze this exactly? Raw equities don't matter that much unless villain is clearly just dominating us but as the ranges are wide and board offers many draws and villain is IP I think he could be double barreling many weaker hands. Also whether we can call a third barrel OTR or not isn't super important. Quite often we will see a showdown where we beat villains weaker pair or a missed draw.

Well all it is based on my calling range from BB...
OTF if we do not want to be exploitable on cbet, we should defend at least 56,52...% of the time (because of his sizing . pot size/ pot size+ his bet), so I think we can defend for example 60% of the time.

OTT we should defend at least around 58% of the time, so it can be fine to defend here 65%, yeah you can also defend wider range, but you do not want to get into some troubles

file:///C:/Users/tomas/Documents/Lightshot/flop.png

file:///C:/Users/tomas/Documents/Lightshot/turn.png

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by MatoStar
Firstly I wanted to write something like la55i mentioned, but then I analyzed it in equilab and I think it is a (clear) fold. But also depends on your calling ranges and on Villain stats. Actually on which river card would we call another barrel? On 2c,2h (we will not very happy) I think we have not any clear out, especially if he would bet really big OTR. I would rather call some FD here.
And on runout like this Villain should be careful about bluff betting multiple streets.

Could you tell us how did you analyze this exactly? Raw equities don't matter that much unless villain is clearly just dominating us but as the ranges are wide and board offers many draws and villain is IP I think he could be double barreling many weaker hands. Also whether we can call a third barrel OTR or not isn't super important. Quite often we will see a showdown where we beat villains weaker pair or a missed draw.

Well all it is based on my calling range from BB...
OTF if we do not want to be exploitable on cbet, we should defend at least 56,52...% of the time (because of his sizing . pot size/ pot size+ his bet), so I think we can defend for example 60% of the time.

OTT we should defend at least around 58% of the time, so it can be fine to defend here 65%, yeah you can also defend wider range, but you do not want to get into some troubles

I have some troubles with posting the pictures. Any hints how to do it easily?
And actually I want to delete my 2 previous posts, but I do not know how to do it ♦

You can drag and drop the picture to this text field

And yea if we look things like that it might be that A2s could be folded. I put some kind of a range to equilab and started reducing combos and it looks close. But what we can take into consideration is that our As2s might be better call than some A3o,A4o and so on because our hand doesn't block any possible flush draws.

And also another thing to know is that minimum defending frequencies don't work exactly like that. Villain takes a risk on previous street and he won't make profit from the whole hand even if we fold slightly more than the min def freq. And sometimes villain is just so wide and the board is quite nice for us that we have to call more. The calculation for minimum defending frequency doesn't directly apply to these postflop decisions where we face a bet. Only way to really accurately see which hands should be folded is to use a solver.

Totally understand, but I think at micros with a huge rake is fine to just fold here, to avoid some tough decisions OTR, but calling is fine too, probably mixed strategy can be the best option :-)

This started bothering me so I had to check this with a solver ♦ It actually looks you were right. I gave villain about 43% opening range and for hero a reasonable 28% defending range. And GTO wise it looks like A2s-A5s should be folded (other than clubs). We do have a lot of strong hands and pair+draw type of hands here. It seems to be better to play with QhTh and so on than with our top pair and I think it makes sense. Now that I look at this again I realize how many strong hands we actually have and top pair with no kicker starts to look like one of the worst hands we have

So, well done!

Thanks all the answer!

I usually call Ax suited vs BTN 2,5x. /My preflop 3 bet bluff range: weak Qx suited, weak Kx suited and weak Ax off suited/.