JQs - flush draw + gutshot 3 way on A high board

Weird and fun spot haha.
I think I play it the same but some might say it's not a good idea to cbet here multiway I don't know.

I think the hand is fine but the post contains so much thought process that it makes my head hurt ♦ I need more coffee..

I wouldn't shove it OTF. You have a non-nut FD and just a gutshot to go with it. Often not good enough to shove I would say. OTT you hit a straight and just bet to make money.
In my opinion there is no need to start figuring out villain's ranges and our equities when we are OTF. I think it is clear that we have enough equity to make that call.
Also OTT you just bet. No need to figure out what bet size to use to rep some hands. And actually you probably can't rep a draw with your bet sizes. At least I haven't yet figured out when villain is betting with a draw or not. If I would be able to figure that out I guess my villain would be quite bad.

Seems fine as played.

I would only recomend you not to raise bigger than the villain's stac, as you will pay rake for the excess.

Originally posted by MLima1984
Seems fine as played.

I would only recomend you not to raise bigger than the villain's stac, as you will pay rake for the excess.

You pay rake from the pot that you win. If you bet more than what villain has it is returned to you. You won't pay more rake.

Originally posted by MLima1984
I would only recomend you not to raise bigger than the villain's stac, as you will pay rake for the excess.

My god that's so not how to reason about it. The rake is capped and anyway the bigger the pot the less our relative equity is eaten by the rake. That's why small subtle stuffs such as limping from SB aren't possible beneath high stakes and why calling range BB vs BU can be designed differently at micros etc. It's in small pots that the rake kills your expected profits the most.

True and not true. If we take PokerStars as an example, at NL10 the rake is 4,5% with the cap of 1,5$. That would basically mean the pot needs to be over 33$ before we cap out, right? Or is my head working totally wrong today?

At NL25 it is the same rake% with 2$ cap. So basically it makes little difference if we are playing small pots or big pots with 2 guys that are 100bb deep. (as long as there are at least 5 guys in the table because if not, the cap is smaller).

So as a conclusion we can say that on limits under NL25 the rake is a bitch.

Above NL25 rake is a bitch too. Beside that I don't get what you are trying to say. I didn't deny any of that.

I think I misunderstood you. I thought you meant that bigger pots are basically better because there is a cap, but now I think I see what you meant

Guys, maximum rake PS is taking is 3€ (Europe). Imagine Alexonmoon. He plays NL10k+. The BB is 100€. He pays the 3€ for EVERY flop he sees. And we complain about rake at the micros
About the hand: not sure how to handle the flop. He have a strong draw. Shouldn't we check IP and see a free card? It's 3 way, SB is short, so if we bet he probably shoves, then BTN can re-raise...
Turn we hit, so it's just bet for value.
River pairs... We block the J9, Q9 hands BTN would call IP pre. 88 probably raise OTF. TT would bet turn maybe. However, he just has 45bb left in a 132bb pot, so I don't mind, he his commited and willing to call with what we beat.

Alexonmoon didn't play on .eu anyway
But last year I've seen a streamed showmatch between two top regs at NL1K on winamax, they agreed to play 20Kh if I remember well. At the end, one of them was winning by 500e, one half stack... and the other one was losing more than 8Ke !
And of course they played nearly only during the "happy hour". Meaning less rake than usual.
See why regs doesn't play each other ? ♦

Flop is better to x imo. SB will frequently shove and you dont even have nut flush draw. Not saying flop cbet is wrong, but x would make our life easier. When bb cc it's 2p+ or Ahx. He wouldnt shove sets here, because why would he let you fold hands he crushes? So I would be extremely careful once bb calls. Turn is fine, sizing should be a bit smaller so you can have some bluffs otr as well (but at micros is ur sizing the best option imo). And I would xb otr, only straights gonna call you and that would often ship ott. So you arent really getting called by worse.

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by MLima1984
Seems fine as played.

I would only recomend you not to raise bigger than the villain's stac, as you will pay rake for the excess.

You pay rake from the pot that you win. If you bet more than what villain has it is returned to you. You won't pay more rake.

Damnnnn are you sure? (Hidding under a rock).

No I'm not completely sure but quite often in the dealer chat and hand histories you will see that the money was "returned" to you. Also I believe that in some poker rooms the animation that moves the pot towards you has 2 different pots for the pot you win and for the one that is returned.

Paying rake for the amount you get returned would be illogical and almost cheating in my opinion, so I just thought that it is no way possible that they would do it

Originally posted by MLima1984

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by MLima1984
Seems fine as played.

I would only recomend you not to raise bigger than the villain's stac, as you will pay rake for the excess.

You pay rake from the pot that you win. If you bet more than what villain has it is returned to you. You won't pay more rake.

Damnnnn are you sure? (Hidding under a rock).

100% sure

Originally posted by zetozinho
Guys, maximum rake PS is taking is 3€ (Europe). Imagine Alexonmoon. He plays NL10k+. The BB is 100€. He pays the 3€ for EVERY flop he sees. And we complain about rake at the micros

Relative spoken, rake at the micro's is the highest. The cap on 2NL is reached in a pot of 450BB, so basically the full 3.5% rake is always calculated.
On high stakes the cap is already reached when the pot is just 10-12BB so basically in every hand. The 5% rake is almost never taken but a much lower %.

Say, a 200BB pot in 600NL, $1200, the rake would be capped at $3.50. That is only 0.3% rake.

In absolute terms the rake at high stakes is obviously a lot higher.

Thank you, myth busters 😁