(FR) QQ - overpair vs turn shove

yeah you call i think he have A high ore midel par

This board is better for V's range. His VPIP is pretty high, he can have a ton of 6's in his range, and a ton of tens. Ask yourself: do you think he is capable of bluffing here? Recreational players tend to be passive, and most of them will never balance their value bets with bluffs. Especially when they donk lead! In my experience fun players only donk lead when they hit. It's hard to see what you beat here when he jams the turn. I think just fold and find better spots.

His VPIP is not high 3-handed it's normal for only 17 hands. I am not able to fold here. A six has no reason to donk OTF, a ten has no reason to shove OTT. Of course he can have both, he is 99% fish and can have anything, but I think that more often than not he has pair, ace, fd or even nothing.

Originally posted by semiramiRNMD
His VPIP is not high 3-handed it's normal for only 17 hands. I am not able to fold here. A six has no reason to donk OTF, a ten has no reason to shove OTT. Of course he can have both, he is 99% fish and can have anything, but I think that more often than not he has pair, ace, fd or even nothing.

Fun players don't play draws like this - you're giving him a lot of credit for bluffing, when most fun players will only donk bet when they've hit. You're right that his VPIP is standard for 17 hands, but we still have to make a decision based off of the tendencies of most fun players, until we have more history with him to make more calculated, informed decisions. A donk bet by a fun player is usually an indication that they've hit, but even more so when they bet pot on the flop, and overjam the turn.

Whether or not a ten or a six has any reason to donk the flop is irrelevant, these are fun players you're dealing with and they play very straightforward and face-up.

Yeah. It's a bit tricky to play on this site because the tables/players are all anonymous, so the stats and notes are good for that particular session only.
The longest session that I had allowed me to gather something around 150 hands of 1 or 2 villains.
So, most of the time, unless I have a read, I had to assume I'm playing against the average Joe there https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=3055207#post3055207

I truly believe this hand is a trivial raise OTF. Raise big enough to ship OTT. It's for sure the easiest way to play this.
Having called OTF, and knowing they won't bluff enough and bla bla bla, I think you can exploitatively fold OTT, even if it's just to avoid variance.
Range assumptions are pretty much useless against 90% of the players at this stakes.
It is the conclusion you'll arrive after playing tens of thousands of hands and look into your bluffcatching hands were you lost big pots (just saying, not that this particular hand fits the profile).

Lol "Fun" players are also many different types. Some of them even don't know the rules, others are stations, others are very straightforward as you mentioned, passive, maniacs, bluffers, trapers etc.. I've seen many really stupid bluffs from fishes, have seen a shove OTF with 72o in 5-way pot with board AKQ. You cannot just put a player in the "fish"category and play the same strategy vs everyone in this category. And we don't even know, if he is a fish. And yes zetozinho is right, raise OTF, it's the easiest way to play the hand.

Originally posted by semiramiRNMD
Lol "Fun" players are also many different types. Some of them even don't know the rules, others are stations, others are very straightforward as you mentioned, passive, maniacs, bluffers, trapers etc.. I've seen many really stupid bluffs from fishes, have seen a shove OTF with 72o in 5-way pot with board AKQ. You cannot just put a player in the "fish"category and play the same strategy vs everyone in this category. And we don't even know, if he is a fish. And yes zetozinho is right, raise OTF, it's the easiest way to play the hand.

We know he's a fish because he's sat at the table with 42 BB. Common tell of a recreational player is when they don't auto top-up. You're right that there are many different categories, but without any further information besides the common tells of a fish (limping, not max topping up or auto-topping up, donking etc), we have to apply a general strategy. Justifying a call here just because you've seen somebody shove 7 high on a 5-way flop will be long-term -EV. Also, just because they're recreational doesn't mean we shouldn't give them credit for having strong hands!

TLDR - we know that V is a recreational player. We also know that most recreational players are passive, and a lot of them resort to donk betting when they hit the flop. This is just my take on the hand, I think it's an easy fold OTT. We only beat draws and air OTT, and can we include those combos into his range? Well, would most recreational players take this line with draws or air? In my opinion probably not.