PLO25 QJ66ds bottom set IP 3way

Should be possible to just drag and drop to forun post but if that doesnt work I suppose you can use image upload services easily.

Bump up.

We should recognise our hand is not that strong. We are totally crushed versus 88 or JJ but also combo draws are quite easily somewhat ahead in equity.

So to me this is actually pretty clear call in flop. Especially as we are somewhat deep stacked as well. Which means I don't really want to get allin even versus just one player for reason mentioned already.

Ideas in call are:
- We keep opponent range wider
- We control the size of the pot as our hand is mediocre one
- We strengthen our call range.
- We can use our position more effectively
- We can actually fold if heavy action happens on flop like SB goes for x-r and BB shove.

In these spots we can also get to achieve so called equity shift by just calling. If BB happens to have combo draw we can get him into spot where blank turn decreases his equity with just one card to come. He might still bet big on turn thinking we don't have much after just calling and we can then go for delayed raise. Sure we will lose still to bigger sets but we are in lot better shape versus other parts of his range.

Other side is even if turn is bad card it can be ok thing. As then we might get to showdown without further bets versus bigger set and actually lose the minimum.

As played I would fold versus most opponents. It's very rare scenario that we are actually in good shape.

PS: Or good enough shape I should say. We have around 30€ to call for pot of 108€ (minus rake) so 30% equity is enough. One of better scenarios is probably something like one player having JT98 and other AQQx with nfd. We are probably in quite bad shape even in that. But yeah bigger sets are very likely with this heavy action.

I raised thinking that I can push SB out of the pot to play heads up with BB which seemed to be drawing or just take it down right away. It all went mental. Didn't expect that sort of action.

In these spots we can also get to achieve so called equity shift by just calling. If BB happens to have combo draw we can get him into spot where blank turn decreases his equity with just one card to come. He might still bet big on turn thinking we don't have much after just calling and we can then go for delayed raise. Sure we will lose still to bigger sets but we are in lot better shape versus other parts of his range.

Other side is even if turn is bad card it can be ok thing. As then we might get to showdown without further bets versus bigger set and actually lose the minimum.

That makes a lot of sense. I think minimising loses in spots like that is the key.

Well, I ended up folding. SB had 877xdd and BB had NFD. Both of them would made their flushes on the river which paired giving me a boat.

I folded a bottom set few times multiway after a crazy action which turned out to be the best hand. It was always a good fold in theory but people overplay stuff like 2pairs a lot or even top pairs. It always makes me a bit iffy.

On Plo25 Its 50-50% get it in. Sometimes they show stupid shit , but i would fold this time

Edit: 100 bb deep its a get it in. This deep its a fold 70% of the time

Originally posted by PakerFace
I raised thinking that I can push SB out of the pot to play heads up with BB which seemed to be drawing or just take it down right away. It all went mental. Didn't expect that sort of action.

Yeah this heavy action should be very rare but you should also ask what is your plan if BB 3bets? Another issue is how many turns are ones where you plan to barrel turn if BB call? Point being most turns are going to somewhat weaken your hand. So should it be hand to bloat pot heavily.

Well, I ended up folding. SB had 877xdd and BB had NFD. Both of them would made their flushes on the river which paired giving me a boat.

I folded a bottom set few times multiway after a crazy action which turned out to be the best hand. It was always a good fold in theory but people overplay stuff like 2pairs a lot or even top pairs. It always makes me a bit iffy.

Ok well its good spot to make notes on opponents if playing on site where its possible. But I think this was unibet so that is not option. But yeah if BB has plain nfd without like at least nut gs he should be in x-c mode. Well some triple suited nfd combos might make sense as bet-fold.

SB on other hand just makes massive overplay even if he had 8775dd for oesd. Just so likely his draws are dominated that he should snap fold all day long. Plus fold preflop would be better than call. I think even 8775ds is just too weak to call from SB.

But I think main concept of this hand is that we should aim to pot control with dry bottom set. That is fairly often the case. Even if villains check I would think about check back as its nasty if we get raised and chance for board to run in a way that we can triple barrel for value is very slim.

Yeah this heavy action should be very rare but you should also ask what is your plan if BB 3bets?

Folding to a 3b pre flop. Probably folding to a re-raise on the flop as well.

Another issue is how many turns are ones where you plan to barrel turn if BB call?

There's a few. Safe ones not completing any draws.

But yeah if BB has plain nfd without like at least nut gs he should be in x-c mode. Well some triple suited nfd combos might make sense as bet-fold.

Don't remember the exact hand be he could of had AK54ss.

SB on other hand just makes massive overplay even if he had 8775dd for oesd. Just so likely his draws are dominated that he should snap fold all day long. Plus fold preflop would be better than call. I think even 8775ds is just too weak to call from SB.

He seemed very solid, I played with him a few times. When I saw him putting all the money in I was sure that I'm beat and he shoved blockers + middle pair and a low fd...

Just call flop. Every time we make a raise on the flop, the question is do we want to stack off happily or is it an easy fold. If answer is anything else, might consider just calling. You are blocking your own out, so any draw has even more equity versus you.

When someone leads 3way, they should have something. From most players donking range is heavily weighted towards non-sets, but there are few recreationals who don't think that far. They just bet when they have it.

Once you get raised, I would get it in. SB is in a spot where he has enough equity to stack off 3 handed with a nfd (especially if he has something with it, even backdoors). If you raise to stack off donker, just follow the plan as you block JJ. But as you saw, it's shitty situation so calling makes your life a bit easier.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Just call flop. Every time we make a raise on the flop, the question is do we want to stack off happily or is it an easy fold. If answer is anything else, might consider just calling. You are blocking your own out, so any draw has even more equity versus you.

When someone leads 3way, they should have something. From most players donking range is heavily weighted towards non-sets, but there are few recreationals who don't think that far. They just bet when they have it.

Once you get raised, I would get it in. SB is in a spot where he has enough equity to stack off 3 handed with a nfd (especially if he has something with it, even backdoors). If you raise to stack off donker, just follow the plan as you block JJ. But as you saw, it's shitty situation so calling makes your life a bit easier.

+1

I also do not like the flop raise. Remember, in PLO the concept of (pushing, denying, realising...) Equity outweighs the requirement of protection.

So we have no side-equity in form of a draw nor blocker that benefits an aggressive line with more marginal hands. No flushdraw blocker. No straightdraw blocker. Furthermore you might think blocking the top-pair is a good thing. At that SPR actually it is not. As mentioned by Kyyberi you block your own redrawing options. Another thing is, we block villains top- and bottom 2pair-compoment combinations we have either decent equity against in a stack-off scenario otf or that would compose a calling range we can still dominate (villain calls in order to stack-off a safe turn-card).

If checked to us I think checking the flop for balance purposes is no mistake either assuming both players are tight/solid.