Please bear with me, there are seven images here, I've tried to make them small, but didn't want to crop out the table background as it's nice for you to see the stats in context - as well as the current VPIP etc. you can gauge what stage of the tourney I took the screenshot from (just so you don't assume my stats are BAD π [or good] - EG at level 1 blinds, having played one hand, of course VPIP will be 100%, we just started!)
- Public ImgBB dedicated album for their HUD:
View this GGPoker HUD upgrades Album I made public on imgbb (all images are embedded in this post but you might find my descriptions informative as I added lots of info for each via imgbb interface.
Okay, so GG have made some nice changes to the client during the summer. It used to be that when you click your avatar, it showed the current hand rank, and your ALL-TIME smart HUD for the current game-type. These are your career stats, which was nice but not helpful if you just want to see how you're performing in THIS tournament only!
So they added tabs to the dialog box. Hand rank is still as before, and to see the old career stats page, you click through via the profile button to reveal that ALL-TIME career stats page. They added tabs to give you your personal current session info!
- Possible answer I have to my HUD question(s) below?
I had this idea after typing the rest of my post, but I've moved it here from the bottom of the post - sort of an executive summary:
For your own stat, I'd want to see GREEN (good), but I can understand that when looking at this stat for my opponent, the colour RED (in this context, now also good) indicates a dangerous opponent whose TAF falls in the ideal range. Is my confusion a matter of perspective? Because GG makes these pages so that you can see OTHER people's stats, to adjust your playstyle vs them, rather than YOU seeing your stats in order to adjust your own game?
Now, thank you for digesting my introduction. So let's get on with the show. Thank you, dear reader, for taking the time to give the information & related ideas below & telated observations some serious thought!
The dialog box now gives you:
- current hand rank (same as before)
- your own quick HUD session summary, with four stats - VPIP%, PFR%, ATS% and 3BET% shown with traffic light colouring surrounding a numeric percentage value for each.
- A detailed breakdown of the session in progress, number of hands played, your total showdowns vs showdowns won, & Wins without showdowns. Also how long you have played and the time bank you have remaining to activate.
The session HUD uses the same three colours as the all-time stats does - Red, Orange/yellow, & green. These haven't changed for the quick HUD tab, but I guess it's made it more obvious (to me), since I'm using it much more, that the colours are not intuitive?
Anyone else noticed this? I'd appreciate you taking the time to look at these seven screenshots and tell me if you think the same as me. I think the colours are back to front. I guess I'm asking whether I'm the one being back to front?
Now, before I dump the screenshots, a quick summary of what I'm basing my opinion on for the four stats (obv the all-time session stats have more than just those four, so I'll leave the two all-time pages until the end).
Theres many pages explaining good vs bad HUD stats, here is BlackRain explaining these four key stats and the ideal ranges (I think he's talking cash game, but translates over to tournament play depending on stage/stack
- VPIP - the Internet says for tournament play, a good player will have a stat between 20-30% over a decent hand sample. When looking at a single session, such as just one tournament, the sample isn't big enough for accuracy - and good tight players will loosen up in later stages, when stack size forces thr action, blinds are worth stealing, etc.
- PFR - obviously going to be smaller than VPIP (higher is impossible!) - a stat considerably lower than VPIP reflects a calling station - he's not playing his hands aggressively enough. Ideally it shouldn't be much lower than VPIP (30% VP, PFR should definately be above 20% - otherwise the player is just calling unopened pots FAR too much!) - and like VPIP, this stat too is going to depend on stage in tournament & stack size, as well as the styles of other players. Logically playing against the dominant playstyle of the table is a good strategy for many, and if you have seven Uber LAGs then I can forgive a very low PFR, as long as WTSD/WSD are high! Using their Aggression against them by being passive is valid tool to have in your skiset, albeit a rare strategy to be able to implement.
- ATS - below 20% and you're not stealing the blinds. You're not opening enough, or wide enough, whilst 80%+ means you're opening pretty much 100% of your range in those late positions and leaving yourself open to being 3bet constantly by the button/blinds.
- Finally, 3BET%, and an ideal value here according to BlackRain is 6-10%, and good players with be at/around 8%...
So, now we know what we are looking for, why the hell is 100% ATS (for example) GREEN!?!
Why is a 64% VPIP GREEN (over the long haul, seeing this is gold, as in a NL HE game I'm thinking here fishy-fishy! Conversely, the ideal numbers of 20-30% are orange, or RED!?! WTF?
The weirdness goes on - we don't have more than 10 seconds to make descisions in most tournaments, before the time bank kicks in. Having the traffic light system should make this process quicker, and I want to be able to utilise the at-a-glance make quick judgements. The colours should give me the information I want (on my opponent or in modifying my own game).
Because the colours seem wrong, I find that I have to take extra time to read the actual value, which takes an extra few seconds and is rendering the colour system pointless. Do I need to reverse my presumption that GREEN = good, RED = bad, or am I right that GG has gotten their smart HUD backwards (compared to PokerTracker and other third party HUD systems).
Because I use pokertracker for those sites where it is permitted, as well as for those occasional evenings when I'm setting aside time for working on my game by analysing my bulk-collected hand histories, I don't want (and my mind won't adjust) to flip my understanding of the traffic lights from GGs HUD to PokerTrackers HUD/game analysis!
In this last above image, Stats look "good", eg VPIP is 24%, but coloured orange!? Surely this is green on pokertracker[/] - unless it's intended for an opponent to see how dangerous I am, rather than telling me how "good" I am.
In other words, the only thing I can think here is that the colours are supposed to indicate to other players that I am more dangerous? So opponents seeing a Green (80%) VPIP is GO for them, rather than telling me its a good stat for my game? Because 80% VPIP, even in the most warped strategy imaginable, is this a good personal stat π, well, unless you're in that window when stack size vs blinds is advocating all in every hand - but these stats cannot be narrowed down to the last five mins of play, its a stat on all hands since the session began.
I think these stats tabs are from the same tournament, one with 1 showdown win, less time played vs the other, which at ~42 mins played & now has 2 showdown wins (and some more without showdown).
Quick note: I predominately play bounty hunter, and I really would like GG to seperate these all-time stats for normal tourneys vs bounty tourneys, as player bounties DRASTICALLY change how you play certain hands! There are situations that are obvious folds in a normal tournament, but a player with a high bounty, a descison that was -EV (fold) becomes +EV (call or even a raise) because bounty has to be added to the pot to give true pot odds/calculate true EV. Sorry to digress (again)...
Now, because these stats are actually for other players to look at, is that the reason for my confusion!?
Example, A 33% TAF is VERY good value, and contemporary wisdom says that a TAF 25-30% is a good indicator of a good player, not passive and not too loose either - reflects the ideal range.
TAF is one stat that's really doing my nut, because I know that my stat is perfect, give or take Β±1-2%. It was one of the stats I worked on first when I joined GG, to concoct that sweet spot between too tight vs too loose, and so the fact it is red on my all time stats page is why I came to the conclusion that its coloured for OTHER PEOPLE to be wary of me, rather than to tell me I'm within the good range! And if that's the case for this stat, it stands to reason that I've gotten it back to front for them all. These pages are for other people to read my game, not for me to modify my game.
Thoughts? Have I, by working through this thread (it's taken me days of thought and data collection since they added the new quick HUD dialog when clicking your own avatar. And it's not until I started typing out this thread that I even considered context and perspective as a key input.
And, if it does turn out that I've gotten close to the real answer, could a GG official raise a product improvement ticket for me, so that these pages are coloured differently depending upon the viewer. So others see the traffic lights that are relevant to them (where GREEN means you've found an exploitable victim) whilst the player who owns the stats sees the opposite, where GREEN means you've gotten your stat in the ideal range!). So it's consistent with pokertracker, and others, basically.
If red TAF for my opponent means I'm playing a dangerous player, that same player should see his own same TAF (and that's the same number that I'm seeing about him, and he's seeing about himself) appears green for him, so he knows it's in the GOOD range.
Simply put - red for self, bad. Green for self good, whilst red for opponents bad (playing pros! , green for opponents, good (playing fishies) - whatever the range indicates a good opponent should be coloured differently if the stat-owner is looking at it.
Sorry for the massive post, but I hope this promotes some good discussion, maybe I've even educated some folks, it's taken a good while for me to break these observations down into what I hope is a coherent document.
Best regards,
AcesM
