Omaha Micro Stakes - How to Win ?

Good luck! PLO is quite different than FL or spins, where the decision tree and options are quite limited and simple.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Good luck! PLO is quite different than FL or spins, where the decision tree and options are quite limited and simple.

hey Kyybi ! I was actuallly wondering if you were still here and alive ♦ might need to want to talk to you in private ♦ ?

Good luck with you're new start and maybe the https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=523971&page=1 is something for you

Cheers,
SDK1987

Yeah I am here. Coaching still available. If you played PLO 5+ years ago, it has changed a bit since that.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Yeah I am here. Coaching still available. If you played PLO 5+ years ago, it has changed a bit since that.

yeah that is probably true. 5+´years ago i had a single session with you. But i would like to have some help from you

Yesterday was crap. down $12 due to me being stupid thinking bottom and mid set was fine and several backdoor flushes and straights. But im gonna go again

Welcome to omaha challenges. Hand analyze area is open for hands from other people than myself as well

Btw if you want to train some preflop spots for free I would recommend to make account in PLOMastermind and using their Skills tool.

It has limited options for free users but still can train open raise and versus open raise spots.

Originally posted by ghaleon
Btw if you want to train some preflop spots for free I would recommend to make account in PLOMastermind and using their Skills tool.

It has limited options for free users but still can train open raise and versus open raise spots.

you read my mind dear ghaleon, i just saw that video and started using it earlier today ♦ <3 ty.

So I have a bit of a quest for knowing if calling turns with backdoor/regular draws such as Flush only is okay to call.

PokerStars, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players

UTG (Hero): $2.00 (100 bb)
MP: $1.78 (89 bb)
CO: $1.87 (94 bb)
BU: $4.01 (201 bb)
SB: $2.27 (114 bb)
BB: $2.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG with K♦ K♥ 6♦ 5♦
Hero raises to $0.07, MP calls $0.07, 2 players fold, SB calls $0.06, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.23) 4♣ 5♣ A♦ (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.07, MP calls $0.07, SB calls $0.07

Turn: ($0.44) Q♦ (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP bets $0.43, SB folds, Hero calls $0.43

River: ($1.30) 5♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks

such as these ones. It looks like so far these figuring out when to call bets and what sizes is my major concern.

feel free to tell me how much of a fish i am ♦ Keep in mind I haven't played poker for more than 5 years plus never omaha ♦

Simple answer is easy, it's all about implied odds.

Here you need to call 0.43 and after the call pot would be 1.30. To make the call without implied odds you would need (0.43/1.30=) 33% equity. Your equity is simplified as outs times two, plus two on the turn (or on the flop for the next street). Here if you think that all diamonds are your outs, there are 8 in the deck. 8*2+2=18% equity (exact equity is 8/46=17,4%).

To calculate those implied odds you need, here is an easy way: 18% is same as 1/5,5. Meaning you will hit your outs once out of 5,5 times on average. So you need to win your investment 5,5 times back when you hit, to be break even. Your investment is 0.43, that times 5,5 is 2,37. We can round it to 2,4. That is the amount you need to win (including your turn call amount) to be break even with the call. After your turn call the pot is 1.30 so you need to win at least 1.10 more. For this you don't add any of your own future investments, so you need to get that amoun from your opponent. Opponent has 1.28 behind, so if he always stacks off your call would be slightly +EV.

Not-so-simple answer is that you might have more outs than diamons, as opponent just called the flop. Or his turn bet range might include more diamonds than a random hand has. That's why often we should skip the really marginal spots, unless we are sure of our outs. Like here if opponent folds his straight just once out of five times on average if diamond comes and you shove, your turn call turns to -EV.

Easy rule of thumb is that we usually can't call pot bets (or big bets) in hu situations with naked fd or OESD, especially oop. As getting value oop is often very hard.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
Simple answer is easy, it's all about implied odds.

Here you need to call 0.43 and after the call pot would be 1.30. To make the call without implied odds you would need (0.43/1.30=) 33% equity. Your equity is simplified as outs times two, plus two on the turn (or on the flop for the next street). Here if you think that all diamonds are your outs, there are 8 in the deck. 8*2+2=18% equity (exact equity is 8/46=17,4%).

To calculate those implied odds you need, here is an easy way: 18% is same as 1/5,5. Meaning you will hit your outs once out of 5,5 times on average. So you need to win your investment 5,5 times back when you hit, to be break even. Your investment is 0.43, that times 5,5 is 2,37. We can round it to 2,4. That is the amount you need to win (including your turn call amount) to be break even with the call. After your turn call the pot is 1.30 so you need to win at least 1.10 more. For this you don't add any of your own future investments, so you need to get that amoun from your opponent. Opponent has 1.28 behind, so if he always stacks off your call would be slightly +EV.

Not-so-simple answer is that you might have more outs than diamons, as opponent just called the flop. Or his turn bet range might include more diamonds than a random hand has. That's why often we should skip the really marginal spots, unless we are sure of our outs. Like here if opponent folds his straight just once out of five times on average if diamond comes and you shove, your turn call turns to -EV.

Easy rule of thumb is that we usually can't call pot bets (or big bets) in hu situations with naked fd or OESD, especially oop. As getting value oop is often very hard.

awesome ill adhere to that! I definitely have lost quite a bit on doing that

In that hand you can potentially try to bluff on non club J and T as well but whatever that possibility is +EV itself depends on how call happy villain happens to be.

I would also lean toward checking flop. It's not worse hand to cbet as 65 will block some stuff and A high flop is good for our range but positives of cbet are also kind of limited as Ax is usually not folding either.

Originally posted by ghaleon
In that hand you can potentially try to bluff on non club J and T as well but whatever that possibility is +EV itself depends on how call happy villain happens to be.

I would also lean toward checking flop. It's not worse hand to cbet as 65 will block some stuff and A high flop is good for our range but positives of cbet are also kind of limited as Ax is usually not folding either.

Oh i see. I have cut down on my callings in that spot in general and its saved me a lot of money. not cbetting 100% either. ♦

The hardest part is to realize that AAxx is actually quite low on the totem pole of premium hands. Im slowly turning the graph going up again.

This is how much i "thought" AAxx was good, i got several spots like this where i practically say "take my money" im almost embarassed. But LOTS to learn,

PokerStars, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

UTG: $4.48 (224 bb)
MP: $2.48 (124 bb)
CO: $4.33 (217 bb)
BU (Hero): $2.00 (100 bb)
SB: $1.22 (61 bb)
BB: $3.65 (183 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with A♦ 6♣ A♠ J♥
2 players fold, CO raises to $0.07, Hero 3-bets to $0.24, 2 players fold, CO calls $0.17

Flop: ($0.51) 5♦ 3♣ 2♣ (2 players)
CO bets $0.49, Hero calls $0.49

Turn: ($1.49) 5♣ (2 players)
CO bets $1.44, Hero calls $1.27 (all-in)

I also got my hands on some pdfs of some basic plo books "PLO From Scratch" and a PLO book by Jeff Hwang. I was told they were really effin old but would at least get me started on some postflop play that in theory still should work at 2pl.. I mean i am on a table where im the only one who doesnt have a 70/0/0 stats over 30 hands. One has 97 vpip right now.

PokerStars Zoom, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

UTG: $2.00 (100 bb)
MP: $2.00 (100 bb)
CO (Hero): $2.32 (116 bb)
BU: $1.59 (80 bb)
SB: $2.41 (121 bb)
BB: $5.96 (298 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with A♠ A♦ K♣ 9♠
2 players fold, Hero raises to $0.07, BTN calls $0.07, 1 fold, BB calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.22) T♣ T♦ J♥ (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $0.02, BB folds, Hero calls $0.02

Turn: ($0.26) 5♥ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.02, Hero calls $0.02

River: ($0.30) 4♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.29, Hero calls $0.29

Total pot: $0.88 (Rake: $0.03)

Showdown:
BU shows J♣ Q♠ J♠ 7♣ (a full house, Jacks full of Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 33%, Flop: 91%, Turn: 95%, River: 100%)

CO (Hero) mucks A♠ A♦ K♣ 9♠ (two pair, Aces and Tens)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 67%, Flop: 9%, Turn: 5%, River: 0%)

BU wins $0.85

Again with the AAxx

HOWEVER Here is a hand i really am curious about, I got scared at the end but should/could i have kept going forward?

PokerStars, Omaha Pot Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 5 players
Replay this hand on Pokeit

UTG (Hero): $2.00 (100 bb)
CO: $2.32 (116 bb)
BU: $0.68 (34 bb)
SB: $1.36 (68 bb)
BB: $0.91 (46 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG with A♠ 8♥ 8♣ T♥
Hero raises to $0.07, CO calls $0.07, 1 fold, SB calls $0.06, BB calls $0.05

Flop: ($0.28) 8♦ 5♥ 3♥ (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.14, CO folds, SB calls $0.14, BB folds

Turn: ($0.56) 9♠ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.36, SB calls $0.36

River: ($1.28) 4♣ (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $1.28 (Rake: $0.04)

Showdown:
UTG (Hero) shows A♠ 8♥ 8♣ T♥ (three of a kind, Eights)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 57%, Flop: 75%, Turn: 78%, River: 100%)

SB shows Q♦ J♥ 7♥ 2♠ (high card, Queen)
(Equity - Pre-Flop: 43%, Flop: 25%, Turn: 23%, River: 0%)

with the 534 on the board I got scared since i know these guys have shown me several times that they are willing to play hands like A3J2 non suited.

AAJ6r: I would not mind to just call this preflop. 3betting is not bad per say but these sort of worst AAr type combos are very reasonable to play as call. That way you also have some call-4bet hands if someone squeeze behind.

As played on flop I would not mind folding. When opponent pots I think he has often something solid. Our hand does have three straight blockers so it's not necessarily horrendous bluff catcher but that would really require opponent to have low equity blocker type hands. If we do continue my plan would be to fold on club as fd combos are ones we can do ok against. So on this turn we are mainly looking at 2-4 out spot.

AAK9ss: Don't really mind that line overall. JTT is type of flop to connect easily in multiway pot and we also block some hands we would look for value with bet like straight draws or KK. In river question is if we assume opponent to bluff often enough. We don't block any boats and block some busted draws so not ideal hand to bluff catch. If I had seen villain taking betting line like this often and getting folds all the time I might look it up still but otherwise mainly folding.

AT88ss: Fine line imo. It's thin to go for third barrel as villain rarely has weaker set and we also heavily block top two pair. Weaker than those might not be willing to call anyway. Flop we can use bigger sizing as well as opponents likely make bigger mistakes that way. Kind of good example with hand villain shows here.

AA is still ahead of non AA hands preflop in HU pot. Though versus some connected ds hands it's close to flip with worst kind of AA. But yeah it's very easy to overvalue it in postflop spots and sometimes also undervalue.

So Omaha is not going really that well. Im scratching my head a little bit.. Fortunately id say i am keeping my br up by just crushing nl2z -.-
I think its time for some coaching, as I really am stuck i think im playing tight and reasonable relatively straightforward being careful not being NL AA best ever. But i just cant seem to figure it out crack the code so to speak.

been busy with family and christmas too so havent played much.

taking a break for the holiday / christmas stuff. Stuff just got real with kids and grandfather having dementia (that me and my wife is taking care of all his stuff) I will postpone this omaha adventure to new years. Plus get some actual coaching / help because it doesnt seem i can figure it out at the moment ♦ FISH FISH FISH.

I think the lock is often quite simple. Filter out all the hands where you have called preflop, maybe ip and oop. Also river call efficiency is quite nice stat to check. Very often the problem is that we are reluctant to fold when we should.

maaaaaan I just played a few spin n gos and i got the 25x and ended second

just had to vent somewhere