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[Closed] nl200 FR K9s

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Paf4488
Joined: 24.11.2007

Poker Stars $1/$2 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 145459
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

UTG: $153.25
UTG+1: $200.00
UTG+2: $217.25
MP1: $200.00
MP2: $270.10
Hero (CO): $246.00
BTN: $190.00
SB: $200.00
BB: $216.05

Pre Flop: ($3.00) Hero is CO with K :spade: 9 :spade:
5 folds, Hero raises to $6, 1 fold, SB calls $5, 1 fold

Flop: ($14.00) 5 :spade: 4 :spade: 8 :spade: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $10, SB raises to $30, Hero calls $20

Turn: ($74.00) 8 :heart: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($74.00) T :heart: (2 players)
SB bets $52, Hero calls $52

Sb is 15/11/4(inf,1,1) over 150 hands

badly played?


8 replies
Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

It's ok imo, a flop-3bet would force the opponent to fold most of his hands, a turnbet is somewhat pointless since he'll fold all worse hands (except for some lower flushes) and get it in with his full houses.
At the river a raise would be overplayed, to fold is not an option.


veriz
Joined: 20.07.2008

Hello,

Flop: Sometimes I might even consider going broke on flop, against some loose players or likely against thinking players who could have a set here or even a straight. :P

As played
Turn: I don't see any reason to bet the turn, we would bring ourself into big trouble if we get raised, he could still have a FH here or even a better flush.

Best regards,
Rensu


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Originally posted by veriz
Flop: Sometimes I might even consider going broke on flop, against some loose players or likely against thinking players who could have a set here or even a straight.

Which percentage of the time do you think a thinking player would have a set or a straight here?


veriz
Joined: 20.07.2008

Originally posted by Bierbaer

Originally posted by veriz
Flop: Sometimes I might even consider going broke on flop, against some loose players or likely against thinking players who could have a set here or even a straight.

Which percentage of the time do you think a thinking player would have a set or a straight here?

Most of the time, I guess :P I don't see them raising with worse like overpair.


Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

I think the opponent will have a set or a straight almost never, if you are not a nit and he is somewhat good.
He wouldn't call either 76s or 88/55/44 preflop, since he can't call based on his implied odds given you have a 30%+ stealrange (and he can't call for value obv).

So at the flop he is either bluffing (maybe semibluffing with A :spade:x) or he has some kind of flush - you will be all in vs the A-high flush almost regardless what happens (as you will be against any other flush), so you really want to get money from his bluffs.
3betting the flop will not get you there.

edit: He should be 3betting 99+ preflop.


TheLastNail
Joined: 30.05.2008

Originally posted by Bierbaer
I think the opponent will have a set or a straight almost never, if you are not a nit and he is somewhat good.
He wouldn't call either 76s or 88/55/44 preflop, since he can't call based on his implied odds given you have a 30%+ stealrange (and he can't call for value obv).

???

to the hand> nh. If he doesnt barell turn I put him on A :spade: , a str8 or 54 most of the times. If he had a fh or 8x i am expecting him to bet almost always esp given u re unknown for him most prolly too and there are no reasons playing too funky vs unknowns, right? With his c i consider us ahaed close to always on turn, but still have no valuebet, bcs he can hardly just c/c with his weaker hands, so hes just c/f or c/r both of which we dont really want. So we rather induce a bluff for busted draws, also 54 which would try to take it away after got scared on turn, if he puts us on drawing, which is good.

Now on river, its not clear to me that a call is the best.. Prolly here it is actually, but based on: his line being either weak or fancy, and i dont expect him to be fancy vs unknown, so hes weaker almost always..he might still be calling lighter on very small r, like minr wehn being deeper, vs cheap bluffs of our busted draws with smaller flushes, or str8.. but, yea, were not deep enough for this prolly, folding is out of question ofc


1) I doubt that player would c/r there as a pure bluff
2) I think a lot of times when he takes c/r line, he would get all-in on the flop whatever hand he holds
3) I´d 3-bet to 70$ and give him chance to shove whatever he decided to c/r- some players think that you´re bluffing there enough times and he woudl not fold two pair+ never there, so no need to give free cards which might kill the action or cost your stack


TwiceT
Joined: 15.07.2007

in general i dont think the hand is badly played since u didnt fold the river :f_biggrin: just fold the river vs me pls :f_cool:

some thoughts on this hand:

flop play:
1) if u dont have a history (150 is not too much, but its possible to develop a sick history even in 150 hands when u like to move it move it ) and we can trust his stats at least a little bit we can assume he is aggr. on the flop and then slowing down a lot on turn and river. as a consequence, it doesnt make too much sense to call his flop c/r to keep his bluffs in because he will just not continue with them too often. so i decide to play a value and not an inducing line. and for me the max ev value line here is to raise the flop (maybe to 76 or shoving directy. the more aggro he is, the more i like to 3bet small, the more passive i shove)

2) if u have a little history: how does he think your playing style looks like? how did u play these 150 hands with him on your tables? are you aggr on the flop, or more the floating type of guy. if he thinks you're able to bluff raise here, then i like to raise small to totally polarize your range and to let him shove it in with a wide range. if he thinks you are passive and folding many turns and rivers, i like to call his raise and just call him down to rep pure weakness and let him barrell off.

turn play:
1) when i first thought about the hand i totally agreed with thelastnail ... although we are always ahead on the turn, we actually cant vbet cuz he simply cant call with overpairs/2pairs or str8 2 streets for stacks
2) however, there are some points which lead me to believe b/c turn 48$ and shoving river is the best line here
a) why should he ever checking a fh to us here? thinking of our perceived range we dont often have a float here on such a wet board. we most likely have A :spade: x or maybe an overpair with a :spade: we would most likely ship sets and str8 on the flop since its so drawy .... so he has to think we are not too strong here but often times drawing. hence, he will always bet the turn with a fh, maybe small, but he will bet. str8 will also bet the turn because we would ship a set on the flop on such a wet board. the only thing a str8 would be afraid was a flopped flush, but then its just a setup and he has to go broke here.
b) he could also just have been sem-bluffing the flop (possible with his flop af) w/ 87 or so and now deciding to c/rai the turn because he isnt sure how to play many rivers.
c) i dont think he would c/f the turn with a str8 or a flush ever. thats why we have to get value in this hand and bet/call turn and shove river imo. if the river bricks off, not too many ppl fold a flush or a str8 here on the river given these huge odds

im not sure if i argued my thoughts well enough. :f_confused: i have many thoughts here, but im just too braindead after studying so many hours every day .... (just one more week, then i might be an academic hand judge :f_biggrin: _biggrin: muhahahahhaha)

im open for some more thoughts on this hand ...