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Adjusting to maniac tables

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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Have you guys tried to analyze how total maniac changes game dynamic? E.g. lets say EP open and we have maniac on SB 3betting 30%, 50% or 80% of hands. If 3bet number gets really high I would argue players from MP to BU should only have calling range? Because certain hands like AA, AKK etc. gets huge benefit from maniac 3betting. If players in position take this approach it will change dynamic completely though.

When we are open raiser, get called and face squeeze we can usually assume callers have very little AA in their range. But if callers take no 3bet approach they now instead have all AA and AKK type hands in there. Plus potentially very narrow range in general. This then creates very tricky spot for open raiser as even if he has hand to continue versus maniac he has to account for players behind now potentially with uncapped ranges. Now this might not be how most players are adjusting in this spot but instead have way too wide calling range. But might still be calling AA as well.

Anyway it does bring weird dynamic where we maybe want to just call AA as well decent amount of time versus maniac squeeze as open raiser. Especially with somewhat deeper stacks. But yeah probably mainly with solid assumptions of callers approach. Issue is if our call range never has AA then those players behind can get pretty aggro with some KK, QQ, AQJTds type of stuff versus our capped range.


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Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

I wouldn't even think about long term or balance in those situations. The thought "players behind can get aggro, if we never call with AA". How would they know it? Even if we play 300 hands in the table (that would be few hours), the amount of hands we call and go to showdown is such a small sample size that no opponent would make that read.

Every aggro is different, other players on the table affect the situation, stack sizes affect the situation and then positions on the table. So even if it's regular maniac, it still would be really hard for any opponent to spot the fact that we never just call with AA. And even if they see it, that would still be quite small amount of our calling range so they would probably get aggro with those hands anyway if they see it +EV versus maniac.

If someone is 3betting almost everything, our 3betting range when he is yet to act should be minimal or 0. When maniac opens, we should 3bet hands that we are happy to call 4bet or we jam ourselves.

Other players affect our strategy a lot too. If there is a reg who also understands the situation, it can make things tricky.

Not sure how much in reality it affects us if MP and CO has only fold/call ranges versus EP maniac. We still can't 3bet maniac without premium hand, and we would squeeze only with premium hands even if they had 3bet ranges. Or are there significant amount of hands that would squeeze if MP/CO had 3bet range, but would not squeeze if they don't?


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Meant mainly from EP player point of view. Obviously we never open anything we don't want to get 3bet with with absolute maniac on table. But it definitely gets tricky if we have player calling like top 10% of hands with uncapped range left to act after our decision versus maniac.

Will create situation where we probably want to open extra tight and still have some folds versus maniac squeeze if we have read on flat caller approaching spot as mentioned above. Getting back raised is just fairly high risk then.


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Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Well we should open tight normally, and with maniac on the table our EP range should tighten up even without the reg. I wouldn't change the strategy that much based on the reg, as the maniac is still the target. Reg has AA only 1/40 times, and 1/70 if we have an Ace in our hand. Our opening range does have an Ace roughly half of the times. So we can see that the chance of reg having AA is happening ~1/50 while we play with maniac ~90% of times we open a hand. If we change our strategy significantly based on the reg, we are missing value from the maniac. If reg has 10% calling range, it means that 90% of times he folds when we open. But as we open with tight range, we block his calling range and that 90 goes probably to around 95%. Meaning that he will call us only 1/20 times. 19/20 he folds and we get to play with the maniac and the rest of the table.

Reg's hand are somewhat tied too, as he can't really exploit us while the reg is still yet to act. But the situation where our "normal" opening range versus the maniac clashes with reg calling with to-be 4bet hand is so rare compared to times he won't do it, that I wouldn't over adjust to it.


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