SPR-3 call,shove or fold?

I can share here some theory again if you want^^

what helped my gain a lot is taking SPR more into consideration, it significantly determines the strategic approach we should take. By always keeping this in mind, we can automatically put hands into the right ranges because we have a better idea how our plan should look like.

The SPR 1.5 - 3.5 where we are in this hand is the so-called Linear Retreat / Extreme Polarization Phase. In this phase our focus should be on having a smallish first polarized bet to leverage a frequent shove (the range should be composed so the second barrel (or check-shove) has solid equity against hands usually calling an allin, to do so so we have to be more tight than shoving at SPR1 with just >33% equity). Linear Retreat because we start out betting some pure bluffs among a merged more broad value range and final the shove with a primarily mergy shove that has has retained equity on the next street (the air part goes into the muck without really good blockers as we have barely FE at SPR1 when shoving). Hand that have decent front-end equity vs villains stack-off range but lack visibility over a 2 streets play fit well into check-shove, ofc solver is mixing well here. Some few invulnerable nuts become slowplays, so we should not check-call alot of hands like yours at all, it has no visibility and also bad equity against a stack-off range composed of primarily trips and fulls. This appears unusual not following the theory of calling medium-strength hands but we dont gotta defend those mw-pots, dont defend any multiway pot unless you have studied that spot very well which is unlikely since the more players the more rare the spot becomes. As a German saying after the Afghanistan war goes "Don't defend on the Hindu Kush" (which means dont defend somewhere in no man's land).^^

The shoving value part is not always nutted (we cannot be too picky at the low SPR), but it should at least often remain decent equity against a calldown. Usually on this texture this will be trips+. As you said with 20-25% we dont have that as we'd need 43% to break-even in an allin at SPR3. You don't want to check-call a lot in this phase, either check-shove or check-fold. So without visibility (and sufficient equity either) it is a check-fold (not in HU where we have defending hands that fit not into a check-shove and we have more range disadvantage, bad textures etc. like calling a pair vs Aces). Also with so many players it is more likely someone has a full. Blockbet does not have much value either, villain will have a better hand calling more often than not.

Good stuff man, reread the reply like ten times for it to settle in maybe it's time to lay of the hindu kush
I'm still unsure of how to play it HU tbh especially vs continued aggression OTT when we hit the FL or Str8, I guess just stack off and hope he's merge betting AA with some blockers.
As for the Linear retreat, I already do that I just have a problem retreating the bluffs

Originally posted by BunBun00
Good stuff man, reread the reply like ten times for it to settle in maybe it's time to lay of the hindu kush
I'm still unsure of how to play it HU tbh especially vs continued aggression OTT when we hit the FL or Str8, I guess just stack off and hope he's merge betting AA with some blockers.
As for the Linear retreat, I already do that I just have a problem retreating the bluffs

You gotta be careful not bluffing too much at your first bet. Pure bluffs are only a relatively small portion in a 2-streets game. Some hands you might consider as bluffs are probably check-backs like the bare nutflushdraw. If you see how much stuff in your range is actually comparably strong, you will see, you do not have to bluff that much at all at low SPR.

Check out this graph. This is BU cbetting half-pot against BB at a SPR2 on a J72s flop heads-up. The ranges roughly could be divided like this:

- slowplaying monsters like top-set or set+draw (3%) check-back

- 2pair+draw, remaining sets, top-pair/2pair+draw and overpair+flushdraw are basically the cbetting value-range most of them shoving ott

- the weaker hands making our betting range merged are having a mixed strategy, those are top-bot & bot-2pairs, pair+flushdraw, nf-combodraws, overpair+pair-bl

- we check-back hands that have decent equity or sdv but would suffer a lot facing a shove like the nfd, fd's, sd's, gs's pairs and naked overpairs

- the actual pure bluffing hands are fdb (flushdraw blockers), we just give up total air (>90% of air is a give-up)

The check back is a few very strong slowplaying hands 3% and mediocre draws and made hands (often single-dimensioned) >30%
The solid value part is less then 10% and
the mixed value part are the hands you can adjust putting in either X or Bet depending on villain those are like ~20%/20%
we give up all air which is around 7%
and the rest 10-20% are check-backs

You see, it's not like we'd be bluffing a ton of hands here actually, more often than not when betting we having hit the board in some way or another. If villain likes to call you down you just give up a more of the mediocre bets like 72xx and if he is overfolding you just bet it anyways but give up once he called since his calling range is overly strong and he will likely call any turn shove or big bet on a texture shift. The lower the SPR the more likely we should just use blocker effects and turn mediocre hands into bluffs (and give up air, bluffing the FDB's on flush turn cards is already what falls into the category of extreme polarization, we should not regularly ship absolute air, if it has not SDV usually you gotta shove it once you've bet it at SPR1 ott so we can bluff proportionally lots of hands but they still only make up a small portion of what is possible to hit, we will have stuff like 2pair, draws, pair, overpair or a combo of those quite frequently, more often than not - it's just rare to have the absolute nuts like top-set but we can't wait for those at SPR2 - but some players do stack-off set only and folding KK+gs against sth. like 72xx is where we make massive profits folding out big equity).

Multiway u rely on your handstrength after facing the first call, nuttiness of your components and position primarily. On my pokersite they tend to play too many hands pre (VPIP >40 etc but bet and raise very value-heavy), this might be bad but is not as profitable as one might think since it is hard to collect all those blinds when everybody joins the pot and has equity frequently, so those multiway pots you gotta be careful. Awareness of your relative position and checking out SPR's and your handstrength depending on preflop action is important here, a 3BP is still just a pot, so if you don't have to actively fight for it when you are oop, you can still wait for a better hand against most players who don't overfold otf.

Headsup you need to check-out solver solutions to get an idea of which handstrength want to call down certain textures, so I cannot give you a general adive here, preflop ranges and player tendencies are the predominant factors. Tendencies (stats) how often someone is stabbing flops, probing turns and betting river in a BXB is very helpful. You still should not defensively call down hands heads-up right into the dark, there are just so many nutpeddler who only bet strong hands. Again solver solutions only draw an imagine how optimum play would look like, you actually don't play like that, you'd still rely on the value of your overall stronger ranges to generate profits. If someone bets nuts only on the river, it is pointless to call because solver calls x or y. The Equilibrium is not like a golden standard, rather a very fragile result of aggressive plays on both sides. Lets say solver bets half-pot with 30% bluffs on the river and calls 66% in the same spot in the opponents shoes defending against the same bet to avoid auto-profit. if someone is just betting 0% bluffs with the same half-pot, it is not like we call 5% less hands, ALL of our bluffcatchers have no value no matter how fantastic the blockers are. Folding might not feel very profitable but if we have reason to do so, they save a lot of money and boost our winrate cause money not lost in spot x has the same worth like money won in spot y when value-betting yourself.

Player profiles: you want to have a rough image of your opponents playing style first, that is my approach. You are in no hurry, you can always fold a hand if you are uncertain or if you think you messed it up at some point. The worse your opponents are the less they can let a strong hand go against a shove which seems to be nuts obv. on later streets but it's not like they are bluffing anything close to optimum, if they have nothing they usually just check or give up. Some just overfold in a very disciplined manner and can be bluffed out with single bets no matter what. Some occasionally bluff blockers, we want to have a read against those though. On GG (you play there right?) players are way too nitty in general so you need to bluff the small pots consistently and be aware when to give up and which textures shifts can be bluffed occasionally. I rely a lot on stats and my HUD but if you have none you gotta take notes (which is less fun), so you should avoid too many tables. In general, if people have no gameplan but primarily rely on hand-strength, they always try to get to the river with the nuts somehow and then shove it (or shove the turn at low spr), that's basically not bad but if the gap is too big we basically try to steal more small pots and pot-control some of the stronger value hands that solver sees more value (it will punish some of the medium strength calling hands and lead to villain tightening up even more becoming tilty maybe at some point cause it is harder to stick to a gameplan where you recognize slowly losing money and not getting paid). Some general thoughts by my side on this.

What people often get wrong is protection (!), especially at the Linear Retreat / Extreme Polarization phase, I'll show some hands at that SPR (1.5-3.5) and how I use the first bet and why it does not have to be a big one.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

PL 5 Card Omaha 0.20(BB)
HERO ($41.98) [VPIP: 26.9% | PFR: 19.3% | AGG: 27.6% | Flop Agg: 31.7% | Turn Agg: 28.5% | River Agg: 26.8% | 3Bet: 8.7% | 4Bet: 14.3% | Cold Call: 14.9% | Hands: 17686]
BB ($20) [VPIP: 60.6% | PFR: 35.2% | AGG: 28.9% | Flop Agg: 40.5% | Turn Agg: 33.3% | River Agg: 16.7% | 3Bet: 6.5% | Fold to 3Bet: 11.1% | 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 71]
HJ ($55.84) [VPIP: 28.3% | PFR: 22% | AGG: 35.4% | Hands: 714]
CO ($15.88) [VPIP: 45.2% | PFR: 16.2% | AGG: 31.3% | Flop Agg: 37% | Turn Agg: 43.4% | River Agg: 28.8% | 3Bet: 5.6% | 4Bet: 16.7% | Hands: 680]
BTN ($45.89) [VPIP: 27.3% | PFR: 13.2% | AGG: 33.3% | Hands: 895]

Dealt to Hero: 8♦ 5♠ Q♦ 6♠ A♠

HJ Folds, CO Raises To $0.40, BTN Calls $0.40, HERO Calls $0.30, BB Raises To $2, CO Calls $1.60, BTN Folds, HERO Calls $1.60

Hero SPR on Flop: [2.17 effective]
Flop ($6.40): Q♠ 3♠ 2♠
HERO Bets $2.11 (Rem. Stack: $37.87), BB Raises To $12.73 (Rem. Stack: $5.27), CO Folds, HERO Raises To $39.98 (allin), BB Calls $5.27 (allin)

Turn ($64.38): Q♠ 3♠ 2♠ T♣

River ($64.38): Q♠ 3♠ 2♠ T♣ 3♣

Theoretically we won't have a high donking frequency and neither lot of bluffs being oop 3way here so this is a iffy spot for villain if he plays so many hands preflop he can't wait for the nutflush everytime. Besides, mathematically a 1/3pot bet is pretty cheap and would allow us to bluff all kind of junk, very profitable against a VPIP 60 player who primarily continues flushes and sets here. Villain is not aware of all this, he is handstrength-orientated in this instance a flush is often just a stack-off, furthermore he should call us down let us barrel through the bluffs in theory. But since he cannot stand the tension and wants to "protect" against an unpleasant pairing card he elects to pays us off and allows us to saves money if we'd were on a bluffing hand like NFB.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

PL 5 Card Omaha 0.20(BB)
HERO ($21.14) [VPIP: 26.9% | PFR: 19.3% | AGG: 27.6% | Flop Agg: 31.7% | Turn Agg: 28.5% | River Agg: 26.8% | 3Bet: 8.7% | 4Bet: 14.3% | Hands: 17686]
CO ($24.90) [VPIP: 60.6% | PFR: 35.2% | AGG: 28.9% | Flop Agg: 40.5% | Turn Agg: 33.3% | River Agg: 16.7% | 3Bet: 6.5% | 4Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 40% | Hands: 71]
BTN ($55.84) [VPIP: 28.3% | PFR: 22% | AGG: 35.4% | Hands: 714]
SB ($16.58) [VPIP: 45.2% | PFR: 16.2% | AGG: 31.3% | Flop Agg: 37% | Turn Agg: 43.4% | River Agg: 28.8% | 3Bet: 5.6% | 4Bet: 16.7% | Cold Call: 39.9% | Hands: 680]
BB ($46.19) [VPIP: 27.3% | PFR: 13.2% | AGG: 33.3% | Hands: 895]

Dealt to Hero: 9♦ Q♥ 6♠ K♥ T♦

HERO Raises To $0.70, CO Calls $0.70, BTN Folds, SB Calls $0.60, BB Folds

Hero SPR on Flop: [6.9 effective]
Flop ($2.30): 4♣ K♠ K♦
SB Checks, HERO Bets $0.75 (Rem. Stack: $19.69), CO Raises To $4.55 (Rem. Stack: $19.65), SB Folds, HERO Calls $3.80 (Rem. Stack: $15.89)

Turn ($11.40): 4♣ K♠ K♦ T♠
HERO Checks, CO Bets $11.40 (Rem. Stack: $8.25), HERO Raises To $15.89 (allin), CO Calls $4.49 (Rem. Stack: $3.76)

River ($43.18): 4♣ K♠ K♦ T♠ 6♣

In 5-card PLO equities run even more close and we have 12 outs against the absolute nuts on average making it a flip. There is no point in reraising (solver would reraise and also bluff reraise a low freq.) but we know our handstrength-orientated player is having :Ax::Kx:, :Kx::4x: or :4x::4x: here, nothing else. Bet-calling the flop ( Equity-preservation Phase ) leads us to the Nuts-or-Draw situation with SPR below 3.5 ( Linear Retreat / Extreme Polarization Phase ). First our goal was to build the pot with an above average hand and to preserve our equity by just calling the raise and now on the turn our goal is to gii with the nuts or pot-control according to Odds. Villain overplayed his top-kicker and "had to go broke" at supposedly low SPR, again trying to "protect" his hand.

Hand History driven straight to this forum with DriveHUD 2 Poker HUD and Database Software

PL 5 Card Omaha 0.50(BB)
CO ($27.66) [VPIP: 20.5% | PFR: 13.5% | AGG: 29.6% | Flop Agg: 34.3% | Turn Agg: 30% | River Agg: 25.9% | 3Bet: 4.3% | 4Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 15.4% | Hands: 332]
BTN ($35.45) [VPIP: 80% | PFR: 35% | AGG: 24% | Hands: 21]
SB ($71.31) [VPIP: 27.4% | PFR: 15.1% | AGG: 22.7% | Flop Agg: 19.4% | Turn Agg: 31.6% | River Agg: 22.2% | 3Bet: 9.7% | 4Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 21.1% | Hands: 150]
BB ($57.05) [VPIP: 27.3% | PFR: 13.2% | AGG: 33.3% | Flop Agg: 29.4% | Turn Agg: 40.2% | River Agg: 44.3% | 3Bet: 4.2% | 4Bet: 15% | Cold Call: 23.4% | Hands: 895]
HERO ($50) [VPIP: 26.9% | PFR: 19.3% | AGG: 27.6% | Flop Agg: 31.7% | Turn Agg: 28.5% | River Agg: 26.8% | 3Bet: 8.7% | 4Bet: 14.3% | Hands: 17686]

Dealt to Hero: Q♠ 9♥ A♦ A♣ 3♦

HERO Raises To $1.75, CO Calls $1.75, BTN Folds, SB Calls $1.50, BB Calls $1.25

Hero SPR on Flop: [3.7 effective]
Flop ($7): 8♦ T♠ 6♥
SB Checks, BB Checks, HERO Bets $3.71 (Rem. Stack: $44.54), CO Folds, SB Calls $3.71 (Rem. Stack: $65.85), BB Folds

Turn ($14.42): 8♦ T♠ 6♥ Q♦
SB Checks, HERO Checks

River ($14.42): 8♦ T♠ 6♥ Q♦ 2♦
SB Bets $7.21 (Rem. Stack: $58.64), HERO Raises To $28.84 (Rem. Stack: $15.70), SB Calls $21.63 (Rem. Stack: $37.01)

On the flop I am bluffing my straight-blocker + gs +bdnfd against 3 tight regulars. SB who is likely to perceive me as an aggressive regular will know I am barreling some bluffs even multiway and will try to defend more loose than nuts-only. On the turn we picked up both top-pair and bdnfd boosting our equity, most people will happily use this opportunity to 2barrel but if we bring us the situation in awareness, we are at SPR3 = Linear Retreat & Extreme Polarization Phase. Is our hand strong enough to value-bet? In 5-car probably not, villain will have a continuation range of sth. like straights, sets+sv and 2pair+redraw, we don't perform well against that so I'd rather check-back this medium strength hand. On the river this check-back disguises our Nutflush to some degree so we were even able to get some additional value raising up his block-bet.

Simplified version: when in doubt, pot. :f_drink::f_drink::f_drink: