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[Closed] QQ - OP on drawy paired board

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TheBrood
Joined: 17.07.2008

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;BB$50.21:211/17 /8 /2.1/19 /38 /67 /33 ;UTG1$31.86:251/13 /3 /7.3/9 /4 /100 /0 ;Hero$74.94:///////;CO$50.94:41/22 /7 /4.5/50 /0 /100 /75 ;[/tg]
0.25/0.5 No-Limit Hold'em (10 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q♦, Q♣
UTG folds, UTG1 calls $0.50, UTG2 folds, Hero raises to $2.50, 2 folds, CO calls $2.50, 2 folds, BB calls $2.00, UTG1 folds.

Flop: ($8.25) J♣, T♣, J♦ (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5.50, CO raises to $13.00, BB folds, Hero raises to $25.00, CO raises to $48.44 (All-In), Hero calls $23.44.

Turn: ($105.13) 9♥
River: ($105.13) 7♥ (1 players)

Final Pot: $105.13


16 replies

I don't hate a b/f here but I guess going broke is fine too if you don't mind the variance. You also better off shipping it right away after he re raised since you are not planning on 3bet/folding this...


nurmalna
Joined: 31.05.2009

IMO after he reraise you I would go All in, He is agressive and you get some fold equity as well. I dont see the point of min reraise there. =)


TheBrood
Joined: 17.07.2008

Originally posted by nurmalna
IMO after he reraise you I would go All in, He is agressive and you get some fold equity as well. I dont see the point of min reraise there. =)

So he can shove his draw or Tx. If I shove only better will call?


players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead


TheBrood
Joined: 17.07.2008

Originally posted by Kaitz20
players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead

Call down on blank turn and river? or c/f turn/river?

If I put him on a draw, I cant call down right?

When someone aggro raises a paired+drawy board ip what does it usually mean? Doesnt it mean a draw?


Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by Kaitz20
players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead

Call down on blank turn and river? or c/f turn/river?

If I put him on a draw, I cant call down right?

When someone aggro raises a paired+drawy board ip what does it usually mean? Doesnt it mean a draw?

my line is c/c turn adn then c/f river, since I don´t expect players to bluff there
you just can´t put him on a draw, he has there sometimes trips, sometimes is raising with 88, put I wouldn´t suggest calling him down on paired boards, so if you think you´re ahead then c/rai on the turn seems better option


TheBrood
Joined: 17.07.2008

Originally posted by Kaitz20

Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by Kaitz20
players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead

Call down on blank turn and river? or c/f turn/river?

If I put him on a draw, I cant call down right?

When someone aggro raises a paired+drawy board ip what does it usually mean? Doesnt it mean a draw?

... so if you think you´re ahead then c/rai on the turn seems better option

If I wait to c/r turn he could hit his FD or SD no?


Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by Kaitz20

Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by Kaitz20
players usually would not raise draws on paired boards so I think you can b7c flop and see what he does on the turn
3-betting/getting all-in is one option, but you find yourself often way behind than ahead

Call down on blank turn and river? or c/f turn/river?

If I put him on a draw, I cant call down right?

When someone aggro raises a paired+drawy board ip what does it usually mean? Doesnt it mean a draw?

... so if you think you´re ahead then c/rai on the turn seems better option

If I wait to c/r turn he could hit his FD or SD no?

yes, but if you you put him on FD or SD then you can also 3-bet pf.
My reasons to waiting on the turn is that he shouldn´t raise very often on that board with FD or SD and if he decides to play them aggressively I don´t want him chance to make correct play against my range, since if you 3-bet most of the times only better hands would shove


TheBrood
Joined: 17.07.2008

I'm confused, and still don't know what to do in this hand.

- If I b/c flop he can suckout. What do I do on the turn if it helps his possible FD or SD? b/c?
- If I 3bet flop I protect vs draws and basically only Jx(unprobable) beats me.


Hi,

When he raises the flop he'll have Jx/KQ/clubs/combos/bluffs. The fact that Jx is hard to have is somewhat balanced by the fact that players aren't so likely to play draws aggressively on a paired board into 2 players either, tho i don't know if that thought even occurs to a 22/7/4.5.

So when he raises and you 3bet you're saying you think he has enough semibluffs in his range to warrant you inducing a shove, even tho you'll take a beating when he shows Jx. The way i see it you might even be flipping with some of those semibluffs but you're completely toast against Jx, so unless you have a good reason to think that this guy is nuts i wouldn't bother. He might be given his postflop stats tho.

When he raises and you call you're actually saying you think he has draws/bluffs often enough for you to look for a safe turn, and you should know already what you expect from this player on the turn.
If the turn is ugly, barring a read that he is just a mindless aggro monkey don't bother and dump it if he bets.
On a blank turn, how wide will his betting range on a blank be? Are there still enough bluffs he is betting to call him down, or do you expect him to take the free card with draws and only bet Jx, in which case it's a c/f even on a blank? Most people will usually check a draw in that spot, but this guy seems unusually aggressive and might bet again a draw on the turn, committing himself in the process and making the c/r line viable for you.

Long story short, if you don't get the feeling that this guy might raise/shove a draw, bet/call and c/f ugly turns / c/shove blank turns would be my plan. If you do, your line is fine.

Hope it helps.


TheBrood
Joined: 17.07.2008

Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.


Originally posted by TheBrood
Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.

8T? :)


TheBrood
Joined: 17.07.2008

Originally posted by maya1984

Originally posted by TheBrood
Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.

8T? :)

QJo


Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by maya1984

Originally posted by TheBrood
Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.

8T? :)

QJo

so he was lucky on the flop but he had the best hand when the money got it...


TheBrood
Joined: 17.07.2008

Originally posted by maya1984

Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by maya1984

Originally posted by TheBrood
Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.

8T? :)

QJo

so he was lucky on the flop but he had the best hand when the money got it...

Yea but the probability hes on a draw is way higher imo. If I play passive I will prob let him suckout. On the other hand, he did raise the flop so I guess I will be more careful when they do this next time.


Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by maya1984

Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by maya1984

Originally posted by TheBrood
Thanks for your awesome post, I get the feeling my read that he played loose was good, but he got incredibly lucky here.

8T? :)

QJo

so he was lucky on the flop but he had the best hand when the money got it...

Yea but the probability hes on a draw is way higher imo. If I play passive I will prob let him suckout. On the other hand, he did raise the flop so I guess I will be more careful when they do this next time.

yeah I like passive approach more