[Closed] 200nl sh AQo oop in multiway pot

I think bet, bet/fold is better without Qh.

With Qh, I think your line is good since you are not forced to bet/call and stack off.

without Qh i think turn is an easy c/f esp vs this opp.. every obv draw completes and he himself is not betting weak A coz we can easy c/r

but to the actual hand: i think u re putting yourself into awkward spots by a bit unlucky betsizing..

i mean ofc u have tpgk and the board is wet, but u are oop.. no matter what u do, /except for like overbetting massively, which could be an option/ u re going to give ppl not so unfavorable odds to be drawing, so the thing is what u prefer more: playability or valuemax .. i certainly prefer playability oop, coz its just soo hard to get value anyways.

So: i very much dislike the betsize.. i think both:

A,overbetting or: B, c/r are better..

tag is surely isor with AK and mostly also with 66, 77 .. so there is prolly only 67, /ok sometimes also 66, 77, but muuuuuuuch much more draws/ u can be behind reasonably enough times on the flop.. thats why if he bets,u can c/r , have more fold equity than with your line and if not most often just stick it in and hope to win a flip. also: as we have Qh , we re stealing some of his drawing outs, and have redraw outs mostly, which is nice too

as played:

u bet so much into 2 ppl that it makes no real space for some manouvering on turn, .. u re almost pushed into c/r or c/f on turn now, i dont think c/c is any good coz u re soooo comitted on river..

also if turn was a brick, u re bettin on turn and are comitted on any river basically, just coz even if draws hit, u cant rly c/f with almost 4:1 can u? btw: there are not that many cards that dont complete any draw and if he s at least 1% good he s shipping to your check..

so: even if i would bet i d bet deffo just 2/3 or so even if it sucks as far as protection is concerned.. just coz this spot doesnt have an optimal vplay oop so we must somehow live with it..

ty for feedback
One reason why I lead out big on the flop is that I want to get most value with draws and Ax hands, which likely would call my flop bet and if turn was blank I would likely get another 3/4 potsize bet value on the turn and that would make easy b/c on the turn
Since draw completed, maybe it is really good to c/f, since flush could also scared them but as I said I had my reasons since I don´t think players would bluff there enough times that I can c/rai or valuebet every single time straight/flush that I can c/f. So kind of way ahead/way behind situation and if I believe that player would never shove river worse than flush my line makes sense, at least to me
c/r flop is interesting and I think I can consider it, since I´d likely would played anyway stacks on the flop, just when heart comes I can´t really c/f, since he can also b/c with some oesd or Ax hand, so if I c/r flop I ahve to shove imo at any turn card

Originally posted by TheLastNail
without Qh i think turn is an easy c/f esp vs this opp.. every obv draw completes and he himself is not betting weak A coz we can easy c/r

but to the actual hand: i think u re putting yourself into awkward spots by a bit unlucky betsizing..

i mean ofc u have tpgk and the board is wet, but u are oop.. no matter what u do, /except for like overbetting massively, which could be an option/ u re going to give ppl not so unfavorable odds to be drawing, so the thing is what u prefer more: playability or valuemax .. i certainly prefer playability oop, coz its just soo hard to get value anyways.

So: i very much dislike the betsize.. i think both:

A,overbetting or: B, c/r are better..

tag is surely isor with AK and mostly also with 66, 77 .. so there is prolly only 67, /ok sometimes also 66, 77, but muuuuuuuch much more draws/ u can be behind reasonably enough times on the flop.. thats why if he bets,u can c/r , have more fold equity than with your line and if not most often just stick it in and hope to win a flip. also: as we have Qh , we re stealing some of his drawing outs, and have redraw outs mostly, which is nice too

as played:

u bet so much into 2 ppl that it makes no real space for some manouvering on turn, .. u re almost pushed into c/r or c/f on turn now, i dont think c/c is any good coz u re soooo comitted on river..

also if turn was a brick, u re bettin on turn and are comitted on any river basically, just coz even if draws hit, u cant rly c/f with almost 4:1 can u? btw: there are not that many cards that dont complete any draw and if he s at least 1% good he s shipping to your check..

so: even if i would bet i d bet deffo just 2/3 or so even if it sucks as far as protection is concerned.. just coz this spot doesnt have an optimal vplay oop so we must somehow live with it..

all very true.

2 comments
1) TLN, u said, tag bu is going to iso 66, 67, 77. i personally like limping back 22-77, not sure about sc, but also do it with those hands. reason being, in todays sh games u get re-isolated by good blinds very often and u simply cant play low pp and sc to a 3bet for 100bb. but u dont mind playing multiway pots with those hands (u rather prefer to hit your set 4way). if blinds then raise, utg will often call und u can then play hands for multiway action OTB which is great

2) i personally dont like postflop. your cbet looks very strong (rly hard to balance your betsizing in this spot). since u look very strong and are oop, bu has monster implieds and dont need to play draws aggr. ip but can play them well on turn and river.
since your cbet size 3way looks like AK/AQ so much, he will always raise sets/2pairs on the flop cuz "its a drawy board, he has a strong A obv, he will stack off". hence, he will call his weak made hands (like AT, AJ) and all his draws.
turn is the super draw completing card and he bets after u check to him. he doesnt bet AJ here. he has 89 or a flush imo very often. (sure, there are 4 54s combinations in his range that he will bluff in this spot. but 4 combos is not all that much. lol sry, just 3 combos that u beat, since u lose to 5h4h obv. there might be some more bluff range combos, but definitely not too many)
for me w/o specific reads, it's a clear c/f on the turn.
u c/c the turn w/ 20% equity drawing to the 2nd nutz. this is suicidal (how to write that?! lol) imo. even the worst reg might be able to snap fold the J-high flush to your river shove if the 4th flush card hits (it should be obv. that he folds a str8 then also). u dont get any more value from worse hands if u hit the river, have bad implieds when u hit a Q or an A cuz when he then shoves into u, u dont beat his 2pair, cuz he will check back his 2pair cuz your range is so often AK/AQ.

actually i just wanted to write a super short statement, that c/f is best imo. hopefully its clear why i think so.

maybe you´re right.
Just I think that player could often hold there Ax himself or 58 that he might bet on the turn and since I hate folding because of my aggressive image I think turn c/c is not that bad.
Btw I think he´d call river most of the times with flush, since he would likely not think beyond level 1- I have flush, I need to call 80$ to win big pot and he might be sometimes bluffing.
But since Th is one of the worst cards in the deck c/f turn might be better, especially against player who I can´t be sure, he is betting turn with his Ax hands or missed draws

After thinking about my overall game plan I like b/f a lot more than c/c or c/f.
Since I think he´d never shove turn worse hands than mine, he´d likely would fold most of the worst hands, but with b/f line I don´t have to make guessing call on the turn and crying fold on the river ui.

yea, as played on flop, standard would be just c/f turn, but i dont like flop play at all