[Closed] NL100 KTo.

if u have read he is commited with tp hands a lot it might be good but vs bascially unknown its quite a bit overplayed i would say. why not just b,b,b?

also on turn there is not that much he is b/c with so i much prefer b for value+protection. if the board was more coordinated your c/r makes much more sense than here.

Hmm. I pretty much never use this line so I would guess now afterwards that we had a hand earlier where he floated me and I folded. Not sure though Just experimenting a bit, I thought on this board my turn c/r looks like an obvious attempt to rebluff a float so I might catch some value that way. Meh, dunno Guess what he called with!

Oh and thanks for commenting on my hands, please continue

I'd make it $5 on the flop, but $4 is also ok.

I like the c/r on the turn. You could certainly just bet out, but on this board a c/r is ok also.
if he raises you on the turn you basically can't fold anyway so a c/r gives him a good opportunity to bluffbet (he will bet almost all hands including FDs, so the c/r also protects your hand).

I'd c/r a bit bigger though (like $36), not much of a difference but you're giving him good odds on his FD.

On the river it's tough, I think a check with the intention to fold if he bets should be the best option.
He's not betting Tx and any pocket pair and he's likely folding most worse hands to a bet since the flush got there.
And i doubt he is floating and calling a c/r on the turn with total air.

So he's checking back almost every hand you beat while he's not calling them.
At the same time he bets all better hands - but he's also not folding them if you bet yourself (maybe he'd fold AT, but that's about it).

hmm.. are u sure? even r to 32 on turn he needs 28.2% equity to call which are not good odds to call for pure fd /also if he had overs+fd he is most likely r on flop so there is rly just not handcombos at all that can continue to c/r and are worse or drawing/.. so he should fold rly, esp given that its so freakin obvious that he has either a 3 or fd on river then so he has no implied odds on any completing cards

i agree that if this line was taken its prolly c/f on river but i rly rly dont like c/r on turn.. there are not enough hands he can be semifloating with and calliing a c/r and then bluffing on riv, so we a, dont give him good odds anyway b, he has no implied odds and he should know it if he is at least semigood

ofc if he s a station fish then c/r is cool

I would definitely bet if he was a station fish because in this case he's checking back all of his draws and he has a lot of pocket pairs and worse Tx in his range which he's calling.

I think the problem is that you can't get value anyway, either by betting or by checking.
So i rather check and pick up some deadmoney the times he's bluffing.

What would you do if you bet and he raised you? Folding seems too weak and calling seems like overplaying the hand.

One more point to consider is your checking range on these kind of boards.
If you bet all hands including most Tx on the turn it's extremely easy to float you - once you check you always have total air so you're basically always check/folding.

Interesting discussion, keep it going

Maybe this will add something.. he called the river with AhJs

Originally posted by Fongie
Interesting discussion, keep it going

Maybe this will add something.. he called the river with AhJs

holy cow! ♦ well.. if u knew he does sth like that then c/r turn is awesome, didnt know he was a fish and even a station. u might as well just c/shove turn for value and get called, right?

Naaah I didnt know that just knew his stats, that we played some hands earlier and that people are in general completely spewtards in bvb..

we discussed the Hand yesterday.

Few things:

- he doesnt have to call FDs on the Flop, often I would raise a % of them on the Flop, spec cause at micros regs tend to cbet too often

- he should check back few of them cause youll never fold a Pair anyways spec on Turn, but most likely on this board you will also snap the River if the draw busts, thus he can bluff out your air hands also on the River but isnt threatned to fold is potquity against a cr. And thus he has a better risk rewar ratio

- you dont have to be cf mode if you check the Turn.

Originally posted by Bierbaer
One more point to consider is your checking range on these kind of boards.
If you bet all hands including most Tx on the turn it's extremely easy to float you - once you check you always have total air so you're basically always check/folding.

thats not right or shouldn be. you can c/c any of your SD value hands.
you wouldn cf 55, but you also cant vbet that...

so imo:
- you profit from his Turn misplay. He makes the right asumptions but misplays his hand.

calling AJ on the Flop is for value against your range. On the Turn he turns his hand into a bluff; that is absolutley senseless. cause he has a lot of SD value

the River call is the consequence of the Turncall. He assumes that you dont cr a FD. Thats probably true, because you cant profitably cr/c a FD.

Thus he could assume your Range is polraized to nuts or nothing.

maybe you dont even ship a FD on the River cause you cant expect to be called by a lot worse.

This is all lvling but I dont think your line is good.

you won a huge Pot cause he misplayed his hand on the Turn and probably overthinks, or doesnt think to much

You should think of that: if you cr the Turn its hardly for value. There are few worse hands that he can bet the Turn for value and bluffcatch your line.
basicly a worse T hand maybe some PPs that hes betting for FreeSD and protection. He could also 3bet any FD, and you have to call a ship but you dont know if it does that in a sufficient frequency. Though the board also hardly hits his Range so that there are nit many hands he can b/ship for value on Turn

I didn't come to rest with this hand and finally asked a friend of mine (very competent player).

I still liked the c/r line on the turn, but as it turnes out he convinced me that not raising after you check is better.

First of all he thought that most of the time you should just bet the turn since you don't need to balance your checkingrange on this board - because you don't have one (hardly).
He just bets/bets/bets with air in this spot sometimes, too.

I argued that in blind vs blind you could get called down pretty light - but that directly lead to the conclusion that KT is the nuts and should definitely be bet. I was kinda blind on this thing ?(.

After all we agreed that occasionally you could check a Tx hand, but by doing that you're obv turning it into a bluffcatcher and that should not be the goal with a hand as strong as KT (vs his range in this spot).
But if you check (even with a hand as strong as KT) you shouldn't checkraise because (as Nussknacker said) you have SD-value and allow him to bluff several times if you just check/call.
You're surely protecting against some flushes if you check/raise, but checkraising makes the hand very difficult to play on the river because no worse hand is going to call a shove if the river blanks and you can't really represent a flush if it hits.

So the mistake i made when looking at the hand was that i looked at the turn in an isolated way (not including the riverplay).
In a vacuum the checkraise would likely still be better, but unfortunately there's a fifth card. I think i'll switch over to 5card-draw ♦.