[Closed] $6.50 9man - SB shoves, me with A6o

4handed I would fold

if it were 3handed I would call

why so sure he has 29% range?

has he been shoving a lot?

pretty std call against someone who has a clue

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
has he been shoving a lot?

pretty std call against someone who has a clue

Yep, that is how I would deal with this as well.

snap fold. Calling is pretty spewy and gotta have a terrible EV. You can call if you are sure that SB is on a 100% and will also continue to shove wide later on. In that scenario you should make a -EV call (which A6o is even if SB is on 100%) to take a shot at the chip lead and stop SB from pushing you around. This is obv not the case here and thus folding is very standard.

Pretty surprised at replies by <3 and Unam

We are on the bubble!!

As Hazzelde points out, even if we knew for sure that SB pushes any2 it is close! With his stats of 16/6 he doesn't seem like a reg, and so putting him on any2 isnt a good assumption.

To OP, just because his stat says he steals 29%, doesnt mean he will steal with his best 29% of hands in every situation, SNGs are very situation dependant, and his correct range here is any2, since you have to be pretty tight to call on the bubble.

nash

SB 100.0%, Any two
BB 22.6%, 55+ A3s+ A5o+ K8s+ K9o+ QTs+ QJo

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
nash

SB 100.0%, Any two
BB 22.6%, 55+ A3s+ A5o+ K8s+ K9o+ QTs+ QJo

so what? The nash calculator on the site always is a little off in these spots and calls slightly -EV. Like I said calling is fine - even though it's a little -EV ICM-wise - if you are very certian that SB shoves a 100%. If he is only folding the very bottom, calling is bad. If you always call nash in these spots, it's a very big leak cuz only like 10% of all villain are gonna shove 100% with absolute certainty on your part.

I don't really get your point, are you suggesting that villain in OP is shoving nash? Or that it does not matter too much and you should call anyway?

no i agree with you hazz. its not a call against everyone. but you saying its a snap fold isnt right either. if you fold this vs regs you are the one giving up equity because regs are shoving ATC here.

OP didnt say villain was a reg, but he does have regish stats (assuming those are unfiltered), so if villain has a clue he is shoving ATC here and we can call.

of course if the SB is capable of folding even 1 hand here then we have to tighten up. but folding nash calls against players who have a clue about SB ICM not only loses you money, but loses you future equity because our opponents will fail to adjust (assuming we never call him light). yes its light, but it can be a call.

Especially if OP plays with villain a lot then SNAP call this, to gain more walks in the future.

i also understand that nash is always a little off because it assumes everyone is playing nash and that rarely happens (unless you table select very badly). but making a close call here against some villains is fine imo.

i think the 'snap fold' isnt really telling the whole story.

Since when is 14/6 a reggish stat in a SNG?

I usualy fold this tbh, if it's a tough table (loose pushes and loose calls) I might call if SB isn't tight.

Originally posted by lessthanthreee
no i agree with you hazz. its not a call against everyone. but you saying its a snap fold isnt right either. if you fold this vs regs you are the one giving up equity because regs are shoving ATC here.

OP didnt say villain was a reg, but he does have regish stats (assuming those are unfiltered), so if villain has a clue he is shoving ATC here and we can call.

of course if the SB is capable of folding even 1 hand here then we have to tighten up. but folding nash calls against players who have a clue about SB ICM not only loses you money, but loses you future equity because our opponents will fail to adjust (assuming we never call him light). yes its light, but it can be a call.

Especially if OP plays with villain a lot then SNAP call this, to gain more walks in the future.

i also understand that nash is always a little off because it assumes everyone is playing nash and that rarely happens (unless you table select very badly). but making a close call here against some villains is fine imo.

i think the 'snap fold' isnt really telling the whole story.

Ah ok I see that's the misunderstanding. My "snap fold" comment was supposed to mean that in this particular case given the information provided by OP it's a very easy fold (=snap fold for me). I also said that I'd call if the conditions were different. About nash being off, I mean it's literally off in this case because it calculates the wrong equity. Calling A6o vs ATC is like -0.1 or so, that's why it should not be included in a nash range based on ICM. However, you should still call against a 100% because of how your equity will change in future hands. Also note that folding will never a big mistake here (even against a 100% range), but it can be a huge enormous super big mistake if you call vs the wrong guys.