Full Tilt - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3
CO: $101.50
BTN: $139.25
Hero (SB): $172.45
BB: $149.50
UTG: $107.05
MP: $100.00
Hero posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00
Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has 3♣ 3♠
fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $4.00, BB calls $3.00
Flop: ($8.00, 2 players) 5♥ 4♥ 3♥
Hero bets $8.00, BB raises to $20.00, Hero?
villain looks like a solid reg. he is 20/15/2.5 raise cbet 2/7 over 350 hands
I think it depends whether we think villain would raise a made flush here. On the whole I think hes more likely to call since we normally dont have much on this board and he doesnt want to scare us off (depends on your sb opening range ofc).
If that reasoning is ok then he more likely has overpairs and flush draws here A :heart:x in which case we're ok to 3b and get the money in. I think thats still the default, particularly as we're oop and it will be kind of hard to play turn and river.
One question for the judge: when we bet $8 here, it really looks (to me) like we have a made hand - a pretty strong one - that we want to protect on a dangerous bd. I wonder how that affects villains play. I.e. if he thinks we're strong, he's more likely to raise a flush since we're not folding etc.?
im just gettin it in. its bvb, he cn raise all semibluffs here, all overpairs w 
and even capable of some moves. We cant call on suited board oop so im just 3b\call it
(though i know Biebaer wants to fold it ^^)
блОгородный днEVник
♠_rolleyes:> ♠_confused:> ♠_cool:
Originally posted by VzLOM
(though i know Biebaer wants to fold it ^^)
I lol'd ♦.
Originally posted by VzLOM
im just gettin it in. its bvb, he cn raise all semibluffs here, all overpairs w
Do you think he 4betbluffs with A :heart:x or pure air in this spot?
What do you think he 4bets for value?
Originally posted by Tim64
I think it depends whether we think villain would raise a made flush here. On the whole I think hes more likely to call since we normally dont have much on this board and he doesnt want to scare us off (depends on your sb opening range ofc).It's hard to say, but since we're 150BB deep he might as well go ahead and raise for value. We'd have a hard time folding a lot of FDs as well as all overpairs.
If that reasoning is ok then he more likely has overpairs and flush draws here A :heart:x in which case we're ok to 3b and get the money in. I think thats still the default, particularly as we're oop and it will be kind of hard to play turn and river.
Actually it's not that hard to play turn and river imo.
In case it blanks we can c/c or c/r depending on what we think about his range and if there's anotherOne question for the judge: when we bet $8 here, it really looks (to me) like we have a made hand - a pretty strong one - that we want to protect on a dangerous bd. I wonder how that affects villains play. I.e. if he thinks we're strong, he's more likely to raise a flush since we're not folding etc.?
Hard to say. In general I think this logic applies, but he might think he can get us to fold any overpair at some point because we're deep so he can put a lot of pressure on us.
All in all I don't really like to 3bet the flop.
This is a spot where he either has a flush and we get the money in bad or he has a draw and can play very well IP.
There are also the times he has an overpair, but in this case it's still unlikely we stack him.
One more thing to consider is, that his range is so strong that we would not 3betbluff in this spot so we don't need to balance that range - but this also means we can not really 3bet with strong hands because we never have air.
Following that logic 33 is basically the bottom of our 3bettingrange in this spot which inclines me even more to just call the raise.
Do you think he 4betbluffs with A x or pure air in this spot? What do you think he 4bets for value?
Yeah i think he could 4bet\calls all his A :heart:x And for sure hands like A :heart:6, also he could do that with overpairs sometime, high overpairs w :heart:, maybe also 66. I would have another opinion if it wasn't bvb. But here ppl tends to overplay hands although i agree that there will not be a lot of pure bluffs (if any)
Valuerange will be flushes, straighs, higher sets, maybe 56 if its in his range
But i dont like calling for the simlpe reason - half of a deck would be terrible for us. All :heart:, A, 6, 2...
блОгородный днEVник
♠_rolleyes:> ♠_confused:> ♠_cool:
Originally posted by VzLOM
Yeah i think he could 4bet\calls all his A :heart:x And for sure hands like A :heart:6, also he could do that with overpairs sometime, high overpairs w :heart:, maybe also 66. I would have another opinion if it wasn't bvb.
Imo this is still a wrong assumption, even BvB, probably even for 100BB. The thing is that his raise looks so strong, that our 3bet makes it very clear to him we have a valuehand - we're never bluffing with pure air because we have 0% equity i case he has some valuehand and even with K :heart:x we usually don't play back because we not only fear the made flushes but also the A :heart:x hands
But here ppl tends to overplay hands although i agree that there will not be a lot of pure bluffs (if any)
Valuerange will be flushes, straighs, higher sets, maybe 56 if its in his range
But i dont like calling for the simlpe reason - half of a deck would be terrible for us. All :heart:, A, 6, 2...
Yes, almost half the deck sucks - but we can oftentimes still call for odds and outs, after all on the turn we have 11 outs to draw for our full house/quads.
so lets assume you b/c flop, turn is a blank (9d) and he fires a near psb. do u c/c hoping he has a flush or str8 and trying to find your bout/quads outs? btw we might be 1-outing vs a bigger set.
Originally posted by Bierbaer
Originally posted by VzLOM
Yeah i think he could 4bet\calls all his A :heart:x And for sure hands like A :heart:6, also he could do that with overpairs sometime, high overpairs w :heart:, maybe also 66. I would have another opinion if it wasn't bvb.
Imo this is still a wrong assumption, even BvB, probably even for 100BB. The thing is that his raise looks so strong, that our 3bet makes it very clear to him we have a valuehand - we're never bluffing with pure air because we have 0% equity i case he has some valuehand and even with K :heart:x we usually don't play back because we not only fear the made flushes but also the A :heart:x hands
But here ppl tends to overplay hands although i agree that there will not be a lot of pure bluffs (if any)
Valuerange will be flushes, straighs, higher sets, maybe 56 if its in his range
But i dont like calling for the simlpe reason - half of a deck would be terrible for us. All :heart:, A, 6, 2...
Yes, almost half the deck sucks - but we can oftentimes still call for odds and outs, after all on the turn we have 11 outs to draw for our full house/quads.
- we are losing our stack to 2 higher sets anyway.
- on half of scary turns we are folding and loosing 24bb (also to worse hands cos he can take initiative)
- even if turn pairs , how do u expect to get value? Bet yourself?
He can pot control ip, and while you think he is so smart and thinking he can even fold some hands to our bet (if we give him too much credit he could continue thinking process that we dont have air here and not betting low flushes on paired board so he can fold his straights, mb even flushes)
блОгородный днEVник
♠_rolleyes:> ♠_confused:> ♠_cool:
Originally posted by maya1984
so lets assume you b/c flop, turn is a blank (9d) and he fires a near psb. do u c/c hoping he has a flush or str8 and trying to find your bout/quads outs? btw we might be 1-outing vs a bigger set.
Nope, the plan was to call for odds and outs. We need ~3:1 odds but we only get 2:1 => c/f.
We don't get the odds to call very often on the turn, but still call > 3bet on the flop.
Vs a range of sets and flushes we have 25% so there's no point shoving.
Even if we add some FDs that doesn't really get better: A :heart:K-A :heart:Jx are really all FDs he can possibly have.
Board: 5h 4h 3h Jd
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.871% 38.87% 00.00% 1488 0.00 { 33 }
Hand 1: 61.129% 61.13% 00.00% 2340 0.00 { 55-44, AKs, AhQh, AhJh, AhTh, KhQh, KhJh, QhJh, JhTh, Th9h, 9h8h, 8h7h, 7h6h, AhKc, AhKd, AhKs, AhQc, AhQd, AhQs, AhJc, AhJd, AhJs }
We do ok vs this range, but he might be raise/folding with FDs because he only has 29% equity vs a flush and he doesn't expect us to bluff!
And even if he's not folding: in the superbestcase-scenario where he has all possible FDs (this means he'd never 3bet AJ+ preflop!) we're still getting 88BB into 200 with 40% equity whereas we need 44%, so bet/3bet flop is definitely -EV, always.
If you don't want to call OOP there is also a fold button. As you saw we will never be in a spot where we have great +EV, but imo since the call on the flop is only slightly -EV in a vacuum and we have some implied odds in some cases and easy check-folds the rest of the time (unless we get the odds to call on the turn but in this case we never make a mistake - we have the odds!) I prefer calling.
