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[IMH4] Coaching con Slashpoint su draw&made hands marginali

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slashpoint
Joined: 03.06.2008

Ciao a tutti ragazzi,

apro questo thread per il nostro coaching, in cui affronteremo le situazioni in cui abbiamo un draw, sia di scala, che di colore, e tutti quegli spot in cui abbiamo una Top pair, con un kicker nullo o quasi,second pair o third pair su board molto connessi, quindi mani marginali.
Cercheremo quindi di capire come gestire al meglio questi spot in sessione e trovare le vie per massimizzare il valore da estrarre (quando ad esempio chiudiamo un draw), e minimizzare le perdite (quando per esempio riusciamo a pot controllare ed arrivare allo SD in maniera economica con la nostra third pair).

Vi prego quindi di postare qui, tutte le mani inerenti a questi due argomenti, ponendo anche il vostro TP (prima o dopo la mano) ed i vostri dubbi, così da poterli prendere come esempi concreti durante la nostra lezione,

Slashpoint


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28 replies
ITAlessandro
Joined: 21.07.2012

Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

MP: $2.11 (21.1 bb)
CO: $9.70 (97 bb)
BTN: $19.29 (192.9 bb)
Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $10.05 (100.5 bb)
UTG: $13.58 (135.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q 9
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.60) Q T Q (2 players)
Hero bets $0.50, BB calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.60) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.10, BB raises to $2.20, Hero raises to $4.30, BB calls $2.10

River: ($10.20) K (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $4.95 and is all-in, Hero folds

oppo penso che mi odi
ha chiamato una 3b ip con a5s una volta
18/15 400 mani cc3b 28(13) 4br 2.9
fto3b 50 af 4 16 4
river boh non vedo set nel suo range e non capisco le sue size che puzzano di bluff


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pokah567
Joined: 20.02.2008

ma in questa mano hai un draw di full house? o un trips marginale?


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uzappaturi
Joined: 09.07.2011

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Replay della mano

$0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

Known players:
[tg]SB$5.04:///////;BB$1.52:///////;MP2$2.42:///////;MP3 (Hero)$2.04:///////;CO$2.00:///////;BU$1.95:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2:d, A:d.
MP2 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, 3 folds, BB calls $0.04.

Flop: ($0.13) 7:d, T:c, 4:d (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.08, BB calls $0.08.

Turn: ($0.29) J:c (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($0.29) A:s (2 players)
BB bets $0.02, Hero calls $0.02.

Final Pot: $0.33.
Results follow:

Hero shows a pair of aces(2:d A:d).
BB shows a pair of threes(3:s 3:h).

Hero wins with a pair of aces(2:d A:d).


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uzappaturi
Joined: 09.07.2011

Avversario non difende molto i bui, per cui al flop decido di appoggiarmi...mossa più profittevole al flop? giusto il c/push?
oppo 28/4 af 3 3bet 3,8 mani 300 cbet 100 (4)

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Replay della mano

$0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (5 handed)

Known players:
[tg]CO$2.64:///////;BU$2.61:///////;SB (Hero)$2.30:///////;BB$1.83:///////;MP3$2.02:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is SB with K:d, A:d.
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, BB raises to $0.18, Hero calls $0.12.

Flop: ($0.36) 7:d, J:h, 6:d (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.27, Hero raises to $2.12, BB folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

Final Pot: $0.63.


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blackdog85
Joined: 04.01.2012

IPoker Network $10.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

SB: $11.44
Hero (BB): $10.95
UTG: $3.28
MP: $10.15
CO: $15.53 - VPIP: 17, PFR: 16, 3B: 9, AF: 12.0, Hands: 163
BTN: $10.85
Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with 2♠ A♠
2 folds, CO raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.45) 8♠ 3♠ K♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.30, Hero raises to $0.80, CO raises to $2.10, Hero calls $1.30

Turn: ($4.65) Q♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2.60, Hero calls $2.60

River: ($9.85) 9♦ (2 players)
Hero bets $6.05, CO calls $6.05

Spoiler

Final Pot: $21.95 CO shows Ts Ks Hero wins $20.66 (Rake: $1.29)

Qual'è l'azione più giusta dopo la 3bet al flop? pushando credevo di essere snappato da un set, ho chiamato con l'dea di givuppare al turn se non fosse arrivata una picche, ma non sono sicuro sia una scelta +ev.


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€2/€5 No Limit Holdem
iPoker
Oppo è un 49/31 AF 1,5 su 77 mani
Ho seri dubbi sul gioco da applicare al Turn

6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG (€411) 82bb
Carlx91 (UTG+1) (€513) 103bb
CO (€476) 95bb
BTN (€193) 39bb
SB (€599) 120bb
BB (€512) 102bb

Pre-Flop: (€7, 6 players) Carlx91 is UTG+1 A♠: K♠:
UTG raises to €15, Carlx91 raises to €45, 4 folds, UTG calls €30

Flop: J♠: 2♠: A♦: (€97, 2 players)
UTG checks, Carlx91 bets €72, UTG calls €72

Turn: J♥: (€241, 2 players)
UTG bets €94 Hero???


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slashpoint
Joined: 03.06.2008

Up Guys:D


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p4blo85
Joined: 15.02.2011

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (BB): $2.49 (124.5 bb)
UTG: $2 (100 bb)
MP: $2 (100 bb)
CO: $2.20 (110 bb)
BTN: $0.91 (45.5 bb)
SB: $2.40 (120 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 T
3 folds, BTN calls $0.02, SB folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.05) J A 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.04, Hero calls $0.04

Turn: ($0.13) T (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($0.13) J (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Results:

Spoiler

$0.13 pot
Final Board: J A 9 T J
Hero mucked 8 T and won $0.13 ($0.07 net)
BTN showed 4 4 and lost (-$0.06 net)

oppo fish 47/4 AF 1.6/1.46/1.54/2.71 H 580
va bene la linea passiva in questo spot? turn prendiamo un po' di valore ma si chiude un draw di scala KQ e 87 ma o ha aria totale o sta trappando, river va bene come linea c/c o possiamo blockingbettare?

________________

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

CO: $2.01 (100.5 bb)
BTN: $1.81 (90.5 bb)
SB: $1.59 (79.5 bb)
BB: $2.04 (102 bb)
UTG: $1.98 (99 bb)
Hero (MP): $2.03 (101.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 3 3
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.06, CO folds, BTN calls $0.06, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.15) 5 4 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.11, BTN raises to $0.48, Hero raises to $1.59, BTN raises to $1.75 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.16

Turn: ($3.65) A (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($3.65) 4 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$3.65 pot ($0.24 rake)
Final Board: 5 4 2 A 4
BTN showed K A and lost (-$1.81 net)
Hero mucked 3 3 and won $3.41 ($1.60 net)

BTN 59/5 AF 1.3/2/2/0 FoldCB 0 Raise CB 50(2) H 22

poche mani non penso che il flop l'abbia aiutato, fanno spesso questa move con un Ax o con qualche coppia media, credo di avere spesso la mano migliore ci sta pushare?


Board: 4♥5♣2♦
       Equity     Win  Pareggio
MP2    65.67%  64.86%     0.81% { 3d3c }
MP3    34.33%  33.53%     0.81% { QQ-44, 22, A2s+, A7o+ }

già postata in analisi mani, mi piacerebbe discuterne anche al coaching


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ITAlessandro
Joined: 21.07.2012

Ciao coach se avanza tempo potresti farci wualche esempio interessante te :)


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slashpoint
Joined: 03.06.2008

ciao Alessandro,
a dire la verità avevo già nello scorso IMH usato solo mani mie, dato che (per qualche strano motivo) non me ne avevano postate, quindi volevo usare le vostre. Ad ogni modo stasera/domani, se trovo qualche mano interessante, ve la farò vedere domani:)


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ITAlessandro
Joined: 21.07.2012

Si o cmq magari sulle mani che abbiamo postato fare varie ipotesi (per esempio presumendo di giocare vs nit o vs lag con af 5 ec ecc) per capire come ci dobbiamo comportar coi vari oppi


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Zovia84
Joined: 11.03.2010

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $5.50 (110 bb)31/20/1.4/fold to cbet (71/100/-)/wtsd 19/ H142
BB: $5.26 (105.2 bb) 22/17/8.0/fold to cbet 100/ H20
Hero (UTG): $5 (100 bb)
MP: $6.67 (133.4 bb)48/9/2.2(2/2/4)/3bet 11.5(26)/fold to cbet (17/50/-)/raise cbet 0(2)/ wtsd 35/ H81
CO: $4.55 (91 bb)
BTN: $0.70 (14 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q J
Hero raises to $0.20, MP calls $0.20, 2 folds, SB calls $0.18, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($0.80) 8 T J (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.70, MP calls $0.70, SB calls $0.70, BB folds

Turn: ($2.90) K (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $2.40, MP raises to $5.77 and is all-in, SB folds, Hero calls $1.70 and is all-in

River: ($11.10) A (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$11.10 pot ($0.61 rake)
Final Board: 8 T J K A
SB mucked and lost (-$0.90 net)
Hero showed Q J and won $10.49 ($5.49 net)
MP showed K 9 and lost (-$5 net)


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Zovia84
Joined: 11.03.2010

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

CO: $5.40 (108 bb) 8/8/0.5/ H 13
BTN: $5.24 (104.8 bb)
SB: $7.93 (158.6 bb)
BB: $4.04 (80.8 bb)
Hero (MP): $5.03 (100.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 7 7
Hero raises to $0.17, CO raises to $0.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.33

Flop: ($1.07) 7 8 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.55, Hero raises to $1.70, CO calls $1.15

Turn: ($4.47) J (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($4.47) K (2 players)
Hero bets $2.83 and is all-in, CO calls $2.83

Results:

Spoiler

$10.13 pot ($0.55 rake)
Final Board: 7 8 9 J K
CO showed K A and won $9.58 ($4.55 net)
Hero showed 7 7 and lost (-$5.03 net)


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Zovia84
Joined: 11.03.2010

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 3 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: $5 (100 bb)
SB: $4.93 (98.6 bb) 53/41/8.0/ H19
Hero (BB): $10.46 (209.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T 8
BTN folds, SB raises to $0.15, Hero calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.30) 4 J 9 (2 players)
SB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, SB raises to $4.78 and is all-in, Hero folds

Results:

Spoiler

$1.90 pot ($0.10 rake)
Final Board: 4 J 9
SB mucked and won $1.80 ($0.85 net)
Hero mucked T 8 and lost (-$0.95 net)


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p4blo85
Joined: 15.02.2011

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: $1.39 (69.5 bb)
Hero (SB): $2.18 (109 bb)
BB: $2.25 (112.5 bb)
CO: $1.94 (97 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7 9
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.12) 6 7 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.09, BB raises to $0.29, Hero raises to $1, BB calls $0.71

Turn: ($2.12) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.06, BB raises to $1.19 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.06 and is all-in

River: ($4.36) 8 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$4.36 pot ($0.29 rake)
Final Board: 6 7 8 5 8
Hero mucked 7 9 and won $4.07 ($1.89 net)
BB showed K 8 and won $0.00 (-$2.18 net)

BB 32/25 AF 6.7/13/4/2 FoldCB 67 H 149
Oppo sembra molto aggro flop, qui sono in 3bet/broke

_________________

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (CO): $3.16 (158 bb)
BTN: $2.89 (144.5 bb)
SB: $0.85 (42.5 bb)
BB: $2.15 (107.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q J
Hero raises to $0.06, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.10, Hero calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.21) 8 6 2 (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.38, BB raises to $2.05 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.67

Turn: ($4.31) 8 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($4.31) A (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$4.31 pot ($0.28 rake)
Final Board: 8 6 2 8 A
Hero mucked Q J and lost (-$2.15 net)
BB showed J A and won $4.03 ($1.88 net)

BB 28/19 AF 19/44/5.5/10 CB 67 3B 0 (HEM da i numeri :D) H 141

queste gay3bet le chiamo praticamente sempre, non credo abbia hittato il flop e rilancio e vista la sua aggressività al flop decido di chiamare lo shove

________________

IPoker, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

CO: $2.07 (103.5 bb)
BTN: $2.09 (104.5 bb)
SB: $4.62 (231 bb)
BB: $2 (100 bb)
UTG: $2.46 (123 bb)
Hero (MP): $2.79 (139.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A 9
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.06, 2 folds, SB calls $0.05, BB folds

Flop: ($0.14) 2 6 3 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.08, SB raises to $0.16, Hero raises to $0.46, SB folds

Results:

Spoiler

$0.46 pot ($0.03 rake)
Final Board: 2 6 3
SB mucked and lost (-$0.22 net)
Hero mucked A 9 and won $0.43 ($0.21 net)

SB 40/11 AF 2.7/1.91/2.86/6 FoldCB 20 RaiseCB OOP 50 (4 tutte verso hero)

oppo fishy board abbastanza sterile escludo un set gli assegno un draw peggiore del mio o delle OC voglio chiudere il colpo qui possibilmente andando AI, che linea adottiamo flattiamo il raise o giochiamo aggro?


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Zovia84
Joined: 11.03.2010

Poker Stars, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

UTG: $7.57 (151.4 bb) 43/8/1.8(1.56/1.5/3)/3bet 8.1/ fold to 3bet 0/ fold to cbet 29/ raise cbet 50(4)/ H195
MP: $8.55 (171 bb)
CO: $6.75 (135 bb)
Hero (BTN): $7.61 (152.2 bb)
SB: $2.76 (55.2 bb)
BB: $3.80 (76 bb) 45/25/4.0/H21

Preflop: Hero is BTN with J Q
UTG calls $0.05, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.25, SB folds, BB raises to $0.70, UTG calls $0.65, Hero calls $0.45

Flop: ($2.12) 3 T 8 (3 players)
BB bets $0.70, UTG raises to $6.87 and is all-in, Hero raises to $6.91 and is all-in, BB folds

Turn: ($16.56) 2 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($16.56) 9 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$16.56 pot ($0.91 rake)
Final Board: 3 T 8 2 9
UTG showed K A and lost (-$7.57 net)
Hero showed J Q and won $15.65 ($8.08 net)
BB mucked and lost (-$1.40 net)


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slashpoint
Joined: 03.06.2008

Ragazzi se ce la fate, mettete qualche mano con un punto marginale, 2nd pair mid kicker e punti inferiori:)


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Krogher
Joined: 11.02.2011

Tavolo shallow (li odio ma spesso ci sono pochi tavoli e mi tocca aprire anche quelli)
Dovevo foldare dopo la 3bet? lo chiedo perchè in queste situazioni ho difficoltà a foldare (push a parte)

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

BTN: $6.91 (69.1 bb) 18/11 3bet: 3.60
SB: $1.30 (13 bb)
Hero (BB): $7.32 (73.2 bb)
UTG: $2.75 (27.5 bb)
MP: $9.64 (96.4 bb)
CO: $4.13 (41.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J T
2 folds, CO calls $0.10, BTN calls $0.10, SB completes, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.40) 4 8 9 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($0.40) T (4 players)
SB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.35, CO folds, BTN raises to $1.10, SB raises to $1.20 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.85, BTN calls $0.10

River: ($4) J (3 players, 1 is all-in)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Results:

Spoiler

$4 pot ($0.23 rake)
Final Board: 4 8 9 T J
BTN showed Q J and won $3.77 ($2.47 net)
SB showed T J and lost (-$1.30 net)
Hero mucked J T and lost (-$1.30 net)


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Krogher
Joined: 11.02.2011

Flop e turn ho optato per una linea + passiva per via del kicker (ci sta??).. credo di aver sbagliato al river, ma quando mi fanno quelle puntate miserabili di 1bb spesso hanno roba tipo la bottom pair o un progetto di colore a spade missato... cmq in generale credo di averla giocata male

IPoker, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

CO: $12.27 (122.7 bb) 75/9/3.2 su 58 mani
Hero (BTN): $10.72 (107.2 bb)
SB: $4.91 (49.1 bb)
BB: $1.70 (17 bb)
MP: $3.80 (38 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 7 A
MP folds, CO calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.40, 2 folds, CO calls $0.30

Flop: ($0.95) 8 A 5 (2 players)
CO bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.95) A (2 players)
CO bets $1.20, Hero calls $1.20

River: ($4.35) 9 (2 players)
CO bets $0.10, Hero raises to $2.32, CO raises to $4.54, Hero calls $2.22

Results:

Spoiler

$13.43 pot ($0.79 rake)
Final Board: 8 A 5 A 9
CO showed 6 A and won $6.32 (-$0.32 net)
Hero mucked 7 A and won $6.32 (-$0.32 net)


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