Hand Judging - Episode 2

  • Fixed-Limit
  • FL
  • $2/$4
  • Shorthanded
(6 Votes) 3779

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Description

Boomer finishes up his 2 part mini series on Hand Judging by looking at recent posts in the Gold Limit Holdem forums.

Tags

hand history review Hand Judging

Comments (20)

newest first
  • CBFunk

    #1

    Enjoy
  • flushtrain

    #2

    very nice
  • taschendamenfalter

    #3

    thx,
    i like these in-depth-analysis of hands.
    one question to hand no.1:
    3-bet on the turn wouldn't be an option?
    if he just calls he probably will check the river and we dont pay more than calling down.
    if he caps we may fold easily and didnt pay more than calldown/lose.
    if he folds he might have folded a 6-outer.
  • Boomer2k10

    #4

    @tachendamenfalter

    I think 3-betting on the turn is probably better than folding but overall I'm not sure we're ahead of enough of his value range here to justify it.

    Vs someone very straightforward and who doesn't pay attention then you maybe could 3-bet/fold.

    However if you do then you let your opponent know you fold low full houses on this board if he can hand read in the slightest. That's not good info to be giving.

    Overall I just thing we're better calling down, we don't have enough equity vs his value range to 3-bet and we don't gain much by 3-betting in position against a bluff which will most likely have 6 outs vs us.
  • Boomer2k10

    #5

    Thanks to both of you for your comments

    Oh and becasue I'm a forum fish I didn't post the link to the thread where you can register interest in getting a video review so here you go:

    http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=99213
  • DarkLuxor

    #6

    Nice video. Thanks!
  • Styrodon

    #7

    Again another good vid, thanks Boomer. I like the format, gives me time to really digest the betting patterns (sometimes these have escaped me in the live session recordings).
  • Rothko

    #8

    Nice vid Boomer :)
  • wuerstchenwilli

    #9

    Hi Boomer! With the J8s BvB-Hand you are just talking about which better Hand he could check-call. You forget about a check-raise and even more important a check-call with a weaker Hand. He has not got very many Hands he would call to a bet has he? There is hardly any 3 (except A3/K3 against we are behind aswell) in his Range, and to the fact we hold an 8 ourself, just a few weaker 8s (T8, 98 sixteen hands). He just folds any Qhigh and Jhigh, therefore I do not see any value in a bet.
  • Boomer2k10

    #10

    @wuerstchenwilli

    The calculations I made are include all hands we beat and lose to on the river and will not fold to a river bet, I don't think I included any hands he should fold and on this board I find it highly unlikely we're going to get check/raised on the river becasue if he does go for it he's risking way too much becasue we're going to check back a lot of our perceived range plus we don't have much that can pay off a check-raise anyway.

    Having said all that you're right that it is a super thin spot to go for value and vs most players it may very well be prudent to check back. There are some players who I would bet against but they're probably the minority overall at the stakes we're talking about here.

    It's actually one of the reasons I kind of prefer taking an aggressive action at some point prior to this as at this point we're kind of acting blind but your point is well made.
  • HamburgmeinePerle

    #11

    the AJ hand of taavi, ~min 21:00

    I would have donkbet the flop here.

    First of all, it's a donk/calldown and not donk/3-bet obviously, as we're having max. 50% EQ vs a raise.

    So donk/calldown loses max. 2 BB against better hands whereas c/r/cd loses 3 BB.

    He will probably 3-bet AA, KK, JJ, 77, AK (or not?!).

    so against these hands we're losing 1 BB more by checkraising the Turn. This range consists out of 14 Combos.

    I don't think KJs to be in his range, if so then c/r wpould be better against it. But if it is, then QTs will be as well probably, so this doesn't really matter.

    c/r is better against AQ, ATs, these are 10 combos.


    Now the question is, how will he play QQ, TT-88? This is very improtant to find the best line.

    You said he might be bluffing 88-99 as he nearly doesn't have any SD-value with these hands after we c/c the flop, 66-55 we wuld have folded on the flop and all other hands in our range except from T9s have improved. So he has nearly no SD-value with 99 and 88 and he could bluff it, but if he doesn't have SD-value it isn't necessarily said, that he will bluff those hands, he could just give up, as he thinks we wouldn't fold anything there.

    We cpuld peel 99 on the Flop as we do have nearly 30% EQ, but if he has 99 on his own that's only 1 combo. We couldn't peel 88, as we're just crushed with this hand, so let's assume he will bluff 88 but not 99, as he blocks 99-combos if he has 99 on his own.

    Now what abput QQ, TT?! I don't think he will bet them, especially QQ not, as he has SD-value against JTs, J9s, QJs, TT-99 and he has the Gutshot so a c/r would be very ugy for him. But he might be calling to a donkbet because of his gutshot. I don't think he's bluffing TT as well as just few better hands will fold, QJs, JTs do have the gutshot and will call the turn probably, at least he has to assume that.

    So he might bluff 88, but he will not bluff QQ and probably not TT, 99. I see a maximum of 6 combos there, and many people are not abla to bluff a madehand even if it has non SD-value and as I said, if he has 88 he will only bluff against 1 88 combo and 6 99 combos if they're in our range after c/c flop.


    I think thats just not enough and I would donk the Turn. Maybe he calls QQ, TT one more time as he has the gutshot and we could be bluffing JTs, QJs, I think donking is the better line here.
  • HamburgmeinePerle

    #12

    River is a c/f for me, I just don't see anyone blufin AT there and KJs is maybe not even in his range, same with A9s. I would c/f there against nearly any opponent that looks like a TAG
  • HamburgmeinePerle

    #13

    J8s

    why not raising the turn FFSD? Maybe he will fold QQ-99, Q8, J8 as you said and he get value from FDs, maybe if he's loose QJ, JT, QT
  • HamburgmeinePerle

    #14

    and we might be not getting that value if he decides to give up his busted draw on the river
  • HamburgmeinePerle

    #15

    great video again btw ;)
  • Boomer2k10

    #16

    Hi Hamburg :)

    Donking the flop with AJ is certianly an interesting option. The only query I'd have with it is would you be donking with a large part of your range here or would be be entirely this kind of hand? Flush/Straight draws?

    I find in this situation a lot of TAGs will just essentailly "Bet for SD" with a pair under the board because calling a river bet here is way too uncomfortable, if we do take that out of the equation then your arguement does certainly hold water and, in fact, I argued this hand with quite a few players since the vid and opinion is kind of split which is kind of why I chose it...I just can't make things easy for myself can I? But as long as it encourages discussion that's where everyone does best imo.

    River yeah it's gross and it's super close. I wouldn't blame anyone for folding.
  • Boomer2k10

    #17

    J8s:

    Personally I have a deep-seated hatred for the FSDR becasue it's so badly applied in the vast majority of circumstances, in fact I'd probably say about 95% of the FSDR's I see are hideous, not just a slight mistake.

    I think getting him to fold QQ-99 is probably asking for a lot in a SB vs BB situation, that said it's not impossible and the K is certainly scary.

    I would say the desicion to FSDR would depend on my opponent, if he overbarrelled and was liable to bet/fold hands better hands here then yes the FSDR does very much have value. (Say someone with a Low WTSD/high AF combo)

    I've actually been surprised on 2 occasions today that people have come up with Free showdown raises I don't hate so I like the work :)

    Thanks very much for your comments and feedback it's really appreciated.
  • taavi1337

    #18

    Hi, nice vid. Thanks for including my hands in it.

    That AJ is a c/f for me on the river, assuming that our opponent is a good player and won't try to valuebet weaker two pairs.

    And c/f looks much cooler, like "look man, I'll fold strong two pairs here, because I know so well that he won't bet with a worse hand here". =)
  • HamburgmeinePerle

    #19

    sorry I meant donkbetting the Turn, not donkbetting the flop with AJ, I completely agree with the flopplay, as you have to balance donks and so on, I would also check here.
  • HamburgmeinePerle

    #20

    I thank you for answering my questions, I think that's the best way to learn for me, as I get what I want to know then.