Question about balancing

YAY!! A Convert!!

*ahem*

This is a pretty interesting spot overall so I'm going to make a few assumptions which apply to my game but no necessarily yours

1) I don't have a raising range in position at this point
2) I am assuming our opponent is 3-betting a somewhat balanced range (which includes 3-bet *bluffs* as it were)

If 2) isn't true then overfolding is probably not a big deal as his 3-betting range will be too tight/value orientated allowing us to take a more optimal exploitative line of over-folding on the flop (especially a flop like this) rather than paying off his stronger range (i.e. he's put us in a position where the most EV we can have is 0 with the bottom part of our range)

To be honest most of the time we are going to overfold here, unless we peel with all Q-High and K-high hands and even then we're struggling

Given the average 3-betting texture (so I'm going a little PEE on this) I wouldn't be too upset folding around 25% here because this board simply hits a 3-bettor's range too hard.

So really our folding hands are T-high or worse with no BDFD, BDSD or ability to pick up something we can bluff on the turn.

Q-high and maybe some K-High will give us a pair/bluff on a broadway card and on a non-broadway we have a folding range from our Q-Highs and K-Highs which don't pick up anything. In reality there does come a point where it's not worth peeling lower in your range vs a represented range

But in your case I would peel with Q-High and a BDFD and probably fold the turn unless a broadway came (bluff) or I turned a pair or FD (that's a lot of the deck we can continue on)

Well, thanks a lot for the quick answer

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
1) I don't have a raising range in position at this point

And I don't cap preflop in position neither, forgot to precise that too ;).

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
2) I am assuming our opponent is 3-betting a somewhat balanced range (which includes 3-bet *bluffs* as it were)

It's the 8th hands in the match, he 3betted me twice (I saw QJs once at SD) pre so far. Other hands were pretty easy fold on flop for me, or he folds to my cbets. So I d'ont have any good reads, except he seems to be agressive.

But in your case I would peel with Q-High and a BDFD and probably fold the turn unless a broadway came (bluff) or I turned a pair or FD (that's a lot of the deck we can continue on)

I did fold, I would have peel the Q of :diamond:. I didn't realise that I'm fold over 50% by doing so and the fact that in a HU match, the strength of the backdoor draw is less important.

I see cleary that folding Q6 w/BDFD was a mistake. What I'm not really sure is the type off weak draw should I call.

If I call all K high, any Q9+, all the flushes, backdoor Q high flush and T9, 54, T2 ( ). I still fold ~35% and I already get pretty uncomfortable about my call... But as you said, vs a value heavy range, it's probably fine and it's probably the case of most players non-"I_3BET_YOU_ANY2_IN_BB" at 1.5$ SnG HU ♦

Now I have to check my turn raising range, I already feel like I'm underbluffing way to much even if my raising range is tight.

Now you're making me wanna play some HUHU SNGs for a coaching

hmmm maybe in a week or so

Welcome to our Cul... ummm... Belief-System, Siliciom!

Here's my crude assesment of the situation:

The dark red cards are mainly just ♦ combos, some:h:h and Q:dx (no Qx:d tho, so for me it's a fold), but you can even go tighter and fold some lower BDSD-noBDFD combos, since the range asymmetry is pretty heavy on us.

Originally posted by Boomer2k10
Now you're making me wanna play some HUHU SNGs for a coaching

hmmm maybe in a week or so

flhu sng's too easy

Originally posted by madorjan
... Belief-System

There is another one ?

Originally posted by Siliciom

Originally posted by madorjan
... Belief-System

There is another one ?

Remember

Playing LHE you're fighting for truth, justice and the right to call down K-High in public places!

Originally posted by madorjan

Thanks for the cheatsheet!

That helped me a lot, to restart from the flop and see what can I do on various turn... I've only made raising range (one thing at time, and I've just two colors on my free liscence :P).

So I started with TP+ as value, and all GS+ (except 54o, 52s /42s of ) and Q high FD.

I put 4 SB for my raise into a 10 SB pot : 4/14 = 28.57% of bluffs

Seems right.

Now I've come up with ~31% of turn raise in that situation. I've some hands left to play with like KJ/QQ/KK for value and lower gutshot as bluffs, but I don't know how far I should go as default on turn raise?

Look at the odds your opponent is getting to call down, they're the odds you're interested in when it comes to bluffing

In this case your opponent has to put in 2 bets (assuming you barrell river) into what will be a total pot of 10BB so you should bluff around about 20% of the time (maybe a little less but leverage principles & equity point towards bluffing more towards 20% than the 12.5% an immediate 1-in-8 calc would give)

So you're overbluffing in this case which is imple to remedy, just remove some Qx bluffs and you'll probably be ok to go. Additionally in a 3-bet pot I'd be a little hesitant to raise all Ax on the turn (certainly not A2) so you may want to back off even more there.

Agreed, Q hi in HUHU generally is a peel/fold hand on the turn unless the board is weirdly midling (like T62 or stg), and especially with the A on board, that is a total blank regarding our Q his in our range (meaning that Q hi is at exactly the same place in our range as it would be on a napkin).

Thanks for explanations

So if I remove all Qx of my bluffing range and all A2 combos, I'll get a bluffing range of 19.7%.

I am still raise alomst all Ax and if I want to go tight on value, I've to remove T9 off my bluffing range.

We will hit very strong value on the river (something like 20% of the time?), so should'nt we bluffs a little more than 20% of the time to still have something close to 20%? Or it will be simply impossible to keep the good ratio on certains river like where most of our bluffs hits...

... Then I have a bad raising range ...

I will be back!