When should I call a re-raise preflop?

02.06.2009, 12:18 0

Hi guys,

I'm after some views on when I should be calling a re-raise pre-flop. Using the sliver SHC I'm pretty comfortable with both capping the premium hands and 3-betting raises - but I'm on less certain ground regarding calling a re-raise, particularly with the lower end of the ranges on the open raise table.

For example I had the following hand earlier this evening:

Known players:
[tg]Position_Stack:hands/vp$ip/RaisePreflop/AF/WTS/ORL/BBvsSteal/W$SD;Hero$19.70:///////;BU$15.80:475/22 /14 /3.6/42 /33 /13 /47 ;[/tg]
0.25/0.5 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)
Hand recorder used for this poker hand: PokerStrategy Elephant 0.67 by www.pokerstrategy.com.

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5♠, A♠
4 folds, Hero raises, BU 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 5♥, 4♣, Q♦ (2 players)
Hero checks, BU bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) 5♣ (2 players)
Hero checks, BU bets, Hero raises, BU 3-bets, Hero caps, BU calls.

River: (12.70 BB) 3♥ (2 players)
Hero bets, BU calls.

Final Pot: 14.70 BB

Results follow (highlight to see):
Hero shows three of a kind, fives (5s As)
BU shows two pairs, kings and fives (Kc Kd)

Hero wins with three of a kind, fives (5s As)

I'm pretty certain I played this ok (comments are welcome) - my flop call was with the intention of folding unimproved. The BU called me a retard after this, which is probably half the reason I'm posting this question.

My pre-flop call was a close thing however, and this got me thinking. Generally, if I'm the first in raiser with a hand that doesn't warrant a cap, I will call a re-raise. My thinking on this is that it is only an additional SB into a pot of at least 5-6 SBs and the odds of improving to 2 pair or better on the flop justify this - therefore it's difficult to find a fold.

But I don't recall reading anything to support this particular view. Hence my question...

Is my thinking wrong?

10 replies

gape0000

Joined: 28.08.2007

Posts: 627

02.06.2009, 12:33 0

You should never fold as preflop raiser for just 1 bet more as you are getting too good odds every time so calling is a must. Also if u start folding to 3bets preflop then you will get exploited way too much. As an example i would adjust to that and 3bet a ton more of hands against you as i would know that u only cap your strong hands and fold most of the mediocre ones.

Regarding postflop you played it really good imo + the guy looks really aggressive so u have alot of implied odds if you are behind, also u are ahead against AK,AJ,AT maybe even A9 so folding the flop is out of the question.

And dont mind his comment it just shows he's not the smartest player around. Just stick with your game and dont let the bad loosers affect you in any way if u are playing a good game.

"Just remember, tight is right but its fucking boring"

_Anonymous_

02.06.2009, 12:41 0

Hello!

Yup, I agree with Gape.

What is more, if you raise and there are two raises behind you, you should fold hands like AJo and AQo, but still call with AQs and AJs because of the flush possibillity, giving you good pot odds.

Regards,

Primzi

_Anonymous_

02.06.2009, 13:17 0

Thanks for the speedy posts guys. Good to know I'm not too far off the mark with my thinking...

redskwerl

Joined: 04.03.2008

Posts: 1,026

06.06.2009, 23:15 0

As the others said above - you can absolutely never fold against a single re-raise, it would be a fairly big mistake to do so.

(Of course we can create an artificial situation where folding would actually be correct, eg.: we know that our opponent only 3-bets from the BB with AA, KK or AKs and we openraised K6-K9o from the button. Against a normal 3-betting range you should always call.)

Waiboy

Joined: 18.09.2008

Posts: 4,877

07.06.2009, 02:11 0

Julesy!!!

Mostly all been covered... here's my two cents.

Assume BU is a PS.com TAG. According to the bronze FR charts (assuming I don't have an old, subsequently updated version?) villian will 3 bet a CO riase with 66+, A5s, KJs, A9o, KQo.

According to John D. Equilator your equity is therefore:

http://www.PokerStrategy.com
Operation completed... 979,437,888 games processed in 0 seconds.

Board:
Dead:

Equity Win Tie Loss Hand
Player 1: 37.288 % 33.697 % 7.181 % 59.122 % A5s
Player 2: 62.712 % 59.122 % 7.181 % 33.697 % 66+, A5s+, KJs+, A9o+, KQo

So the pot is 4.5 SB and you only have to pay 1 SB to see the flop. You therefore have 4.5:1 pot odds and you need 2.7:1 with 37% equity. 4.5 > 2.7 therefore you can easily make the call profitably given this range. And this is even before worrying about the meta game stuff that gape0000 quite rightly alludes to.

As for the flop, you have to call bottom pair on your outs and given villian could easily miss this flop (remembering a PS.com TAG range).

You retard. :f_p:

"...and then I was like "?", and they were like "..." and then it all came down to the cheese making method. Needless to say

_Anonymous_

10.06.2009, 22:11 0

Originally posted by Waiboy

As for the flop, you have to call bottom pair on your outs and given villian could easily miss this flop (remembering a PS.com TAG range).

Well on this flop PS villain would be ahead only if he would hold QQ, since SHC predicts raises only with 99+/AJ+, so if you're sure you're playing against PS player this is a very easy postflop raise... and all raises afterwards... ♦

And BU is a retards himself. Having KK in hand doesn't necesseraly mean he knows much about poker... :f_p:

Waiboy

Joined: 18.09.2008

Posts: 4,877

11.06.2009, 10:23 0

Originally posted by Berkstajger

Originally posted by Waiboy

As for the flop, you have to call bottom pair on your outs and given villian could easily miss this flop (remembering a PS.com TAG range).

Well on this flop PS villain would be ahead only if he would hold QQ, since SHC predicts raises only with 99+/AJ+, so if you're sure you're playing against PS player this is a very easy postflop raise... and all raises afterwards... ♦

And BU is a retards himself. Having KK in hand doesn't necesseraly mean he knows much about poker...

Hi Berkstajger

I'm not sure where you get your range from.

The bronze starting hands chart for a 3 bet v an open raiser in the CO position is 66+, A5s+, KJs+, QJs, A7o+, KQo. If you're not using this chart or range you are missing value with your pre flop raises!

"...and then I was like "?", and they were like "..." and then it all came down to the cheese making method. Needless to say

_Anonymous_

11.06.2009, 11:19 0

Well, I was reffering to the basic SHC: http://www.pokerstrategy.com/download/content/shc_fl_en.pdf

And I have to correct myself - only a PS player with basic rank would play it that way.

_Anonymous_

11.06.2009, 11:55 0

Basic SHC is bad... BAAAAAD...

_Anonymous_

11.06.2009, 16:24 0

...and I think I had been sticking to it a bit too long. :rolleyes:

[Closed] When should I call a re-raise preflop?