Hi Lemon,
When do you leave the table when some big stacks stay at your table, cause often those big stacks outbet you ,to get you all in?
Thanks
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Nice guide!
One question: what's your take on having complex preflop charts (such as the ones you posted with bet sizes, 3-bet/4-bet actions etc.) at hand during gameplay? Many sites state that it is actually a simple form of RTA, and for example GGPoker doesn't allow any preflop charts (though it's quite impossible to enforce that rule).
Personally, I think that if player notes are allowed, then anything that can be fit into note format should be allowed, and this probably also includes fairly complex preflop action tables (as written text, at least). The question is, when does it get too close to RTA and should not be allowed? It would be nice to hear some thoughts on this.
Edit: I just noticed that you already addressed this in the FAQ.
I dug a bit deeper into this and found that Pokerstars has published a presentation about allowed reference material: cmsstorage.rationalcdn.com/assets/ps/assets/common/downloads/tpt-reference-guide-march-4.pdf (see pages 16-25)
Only charts for unopened pots are allowed. No 3-bet or deeper information is allowed.
Hi!!! Thanks for the guide. I have one question. If we checked pre-flop from the BB. What rules do we follow post-flop??
Originally posted by Yahto
Hi Lemon,When do you leave the table when some big stacks stay at your table, cause often those big stacks outbet you ,to get you all in?
Thanks
A new guide was added in the bankroll management section. The guide works around 100big blinds, some rules, especially about monsters work less well when you start getting deep - for example preflop hands QQ+AK are always monsters in the guide, you re-raise and get it in, at worst it's a relatively small error in some 100bb positions.
but when you are for example three hundreds effective deep with someone, going all in with AK offsuit will spell trouble as your opponents will show up with a really strong range
For the other two, I will have a clear answer after we discuss it with the Godfather with the guide and look at stars T+C closer 
Originally posted by acesfull
I dug a bit deeper into this and found that Pokerstars has published a presentation about allowed reference material: cmsstorage.rationalcdn.com/assets/ps/assets/common/downloads/tpt-reference-guide-march-4.pdf (see pages 16-25)Only charts for unopened pots are allowed. No 3-bet or deeper information is allowed.
You are correct - Stars have tightened the rules - you need to remember the charts by heart. Of course, there's no way they would find out you opened it or especially printed it - but better safe than sorry - better to use charts where it's allowed, and on Stars and GG remember them. A tip is that you can e.g. record your session in for example a screen recorder and then go over it later, seeing where you deviated from the guide
Of course, we don't agree with this policy, as Paxis says
the terms and conditions regarding static charts that do not adapt themselves to the situation are nonsensical. Firstly, such a chart does not automatically make a bad player a good one, after all, he still has to use it correctly and secondly, GG Poker (or Stars) cannot control whether you have a static image open with a chart and certainly cannot control whether you have a chart in printed form on your desk. Therefore, it actually only makes sense to ban dynamic charts, because then a program recognizes the situation and tells you what to do
but you don't want to risk giving a site an excuse to have an issue with you
Originally posted by santiqwerty
Hi!!! Thanks for the guide. I have one question. If we checked pre-flop from the BB. What rules do we follow post-flop??
If we have checked in the BB, then we can just play from the flop as if we had raised before the flop and were the preflop aggressor.
Hi everybody! I wrote a python script for fun for the pre-flop strategy. it is still incomplete but i'll share it in case someone wants to help me finish it and improve it.
Originally posted by santiqwerty
Hi everybody! I wrote a python script for fun for the pre-flop strategy. it is still incomplete but i'll share it in case someone wants to help me finish it and improve it.https://pastebin.com/xphFMDmd/blockquote >
Damn that's really cool, I know nothing about Python though- how can I view this!(Also, careful about site T+C! If using it when playing)
Hello,
i have a question about the Min3Bet rule. If i understand it correctly, i can call any hand if i face a min3bet, even i if am out of position. But how do i proceed on the flop if i call min3bet and i am out of position? The post flop guide only mentions how to play when we are in position when we call 3bet.
Thanks!
Originally posted by lanzik
Hello,i have a question about the Min3Bet rule. If i understand it correctly, i can call any hand if i face a min3bet, even i if am out of position. But how do i proceed on the flop if i call min3bet and i am out of position? The post flop guide only mentions how to play when we are in position when we call 3bet.
Thanks!
we will answer it shortly live
20:00 CEST
https://www.twitch.tv/pokerstrategydotcom
The SB chart has AJo and KQo as both dark green and red. Could they not be just red, in the same way AQs etc. are?
- Dark Green is OR & IsoR, so with only folds or limps before me in the SB, I'd Raise (just as I would the Red ones)
- Red is OR & IsoR & 3-bet & Bluff4-bet OOP (and Fold to further action), so with an OR ahead, I 3-bet, with an OR and 3-bet ahead, I Bluff4-bet.
So I'm not spotting the difference in how I treat AJo and KQo in different situations, in a way that is different from the Red range.
Another question, this time with regard to the special rule for 3Bets vs EP, which says (I've edited for brevity) "Against an EP open we 3bet ONLY the MP, ranges i.e., JJ+, AQ+, AJs+, KQs. This applies to all our positions except for the BB. In the BB, we use the normal 3Bet range because it is already tighter than that from the HJ/MP."
We use the MP 3-bet range in all positions bar BB, therefore we use the MP 3-bet range in SB.
The MP 3-bet range is wider than the BB 3-bet range.
Therefore we have a wider 3-bet range vs EP from SB than we do from BB, which sounds counterintuitive.
Am I interpreting this correctly?
Originally posted by SourlyHalf
... Therefore we have a wider 3-bet range vs EP from SB than we do from BB, which sounds counterintuitive.Am I interpreting this correctly?
I understand, you close the action in the BB so you could 3bet more. But: it's because you have the choice to call as well in the BB, instead of only 3betting.
Originally posted by SourlyHalf
The SB chart has AJo and KQo as both dark green and red. Could they not be just red, in the same way AQs etc. are?
- Dark Green is OR & IsoR, so with only folds or limps before me in the SB, I'd Raise (just as I would the Red ones)
- Red is OR & IsoR & 3-bet & Bluff4-bet OOP (and Fold to further action), so with an OR ahead, I 3-bet, with an OR and 3-bet ahead, I Bluff4-bet.So I'm not spotting the difference in how I treat AJo and KQo in different situations, in a way that is different from the Red range.
Yeah they could be, I will check with the author why we have 2 colours
Originally posted by SourlyHalf
Another question, this time with regard to the special rule for 3Bets vs EP, which says (I've edited for brevity) "Against an EP open we 3bet ONLY the MP, ranges i.e., JJ+, AQ+, AJs+, KQs. This applies to all our positions except for the BB. In the BB, we use the normal 3Bet range because it is already tighter than that from the HJ/MP."We use the MP 3-bet range in all positions bar BB, therefore we use the MP 3-bet range in SB.
The MP 3-bet range is wider than the BB 3-bet range.
Therefore we have a wider 3-bet range vs EP from SB than we do from BB, which sounds counterintuitive.Am I interpreting this correctly?
This is correct - and the reason is that unlike in the small blind, in the big blind we get to call the hands that aren't 3bet. So we get to see the flop there. On the small blind the only alternative is to fold
Thanks for the replies, LemOn36. The SB and BB 3-bet ranges explanation makes sense, thanks. As I'm working through the material there are some more questions, hope you don't mind. Two at the moment are:
1. The raw ranges are sometimes different from the combined pre-flop ranges, for example MP 4-bet bluff range is AQo/s, KQs and AJs (red) in the combined one, but only AQo/s and KQs in the raw one. Same for 4-bet bluff CO, which is either TT, JJ, AQs/o, KQs, AJs (red in combined) or AQo/s and KQo/s (raw). Is the mistake in the raw ranges or the combined pictures? Or am I reading them wrong?
2. Other than the pocket pair and suited connector special rules, we don't call IP. This means folding 88 on the BU to a single raise, folding hands like TT and smaller, and ATs in MP to a single raise. What is the theory behind this? Is it that we are behind the open-raiser's range with those hands - Sklansky's gap theory - and therefore rely on draws (sets, quads for the pairs; flush for the ATs type hands) and the odds are not favourable vs. one opponent?
Thanks again.
1) Combined ranges are up to date - I'll make sure to update the Raw ones too, thanks for pointing it out! We are making improvements to the guide as we go
2) The guide is designed to be easy to execute and simple for beginners, and works in tandem with the postflop rules. It's not easy to react to squeezes, and multiway postflop rules are a lot stricter/tighter - so we call as little as possible except when defending the big blinds or fishing for monsters vs 2+ players
That's it - that's the primary goal here- simplicity, playability and ease of use and execution for new players.
As you start moving towards NL10 and fine tuning your strategy, calling more preflop can be one of the first adjustments with the strongest hands the guide tells you to fold.
Originally posted by LemOn36
1) Combined ranges are up to date - I'll make sure to update the Raw ones too, thanks for pointing it out! We are making improvements to the guide as we go2) The guide is designed to be easy to execute and simple for beginners, and works in tandem with the postflop rules. It's not easy to react to squeezes, and multiway postflop rules are a lot stricter/tighter - so we call as little as possible except when defending the big blinds or fishing for monsters vs 2+ players
As you start moving towards NL10 and fine tuning your strategy, calling more preflop can be one of the first adjustments with the strongest hands the guide tells you to fold.
Appreciate the replies, thanks.
EDIT - One more for today - Are we really happy to go all-in preflop with QQ? Feels that is behind most player's pre-flop all in range.