It's from a competitor's site so I can't sorry
Notifications
Clear all
sauce produces vids at RIO.
Anyway, my WR is -75bb/100 for T6o specifically and sample size is decent (388 hands).
No, we are not defending it cos we think opponent has many leaks. It's merely because
1. Good price, as emphasized by pleno many times
2. Reasonable hand - Both cards 6 and above allow you to flop 2nd pair a good amount, both cards have some connectivity.
Originally posted by pleno1
1.. go to equilab
2... check how t6o does vs a 60% range
3... check what price we needyou will see we have enough equity with 72o probably never mind t6o. With t6o its way way easier to realise that equity.
Hello, noob posting a question.
Can we really compare the equity vs a 60% range and the pot odds we are getting preflop? This assumes we see all 5 cards with no further costs? Am I missing something?
Originally posted by unshpe
Originally posted by pleno1
1.. go to equilab
2... check how t6o does vs a 60% range
3... check what price we needyou will see we have enough equity with 72o probably never mind t6o. With t6o its way way easier to realise that equity.
Hello, noob posting a question.
Can we really compare the equity vs a 60% range and the pot odds we are getting preflop? This assumes we see all 5 cards with no further costs? Am I missing something?
It doesn't matter if we get to see 1-3-5 cards, the odds we get are still the same since our opponent won't always see 5 cards either. Pretty easy to figure that out....
you are oop
your hand is weak and not super playable.
Thus, you need significantly more equity to justify the call PF. At the same time the odds offered are like 22% which is extremely cheap. But you get something like 37% equity which is more than enough to compensate.
Originally posted by mbml
sauce produces vids at RIO.Anyway, my WR is -75bb/100 for T6o specifically and sample size is decent (388 hands).
Interesting.
Just to confirm, this is from flatting the BB v BTN opens only? It doesn't include opening T6 on the BTN or 3bets or anything else?
Originally posted by variancekiller
Originally posted by unshpe
Originally posted by pleno1
1.. go to equilab
2... check how t6o does vs a 60% range
3... check what price we needyou will see we have enough equity with 72o probably never mind t6o. With t6o its way way easier to realise that equity.
Hello, noob posting a question.
Can we really compare the equity vs a 60% range and the pot odds we are getting preflop? This assumes we see all 5 cards with no further costs? Am I missing something?It doesn't matter if we get to see 1-3-5 cards, the odds we get are still the same since our opponent won't always see 5 cards either. Pretty easy to figure that out....
What do you mean? When you compare the T6o vs 60% range preflop in Equilab, it shows you the odds of winning at SHOWDOWN.
From what i know, when you are chasing a flushdraw on the flop, you don't look at the odds of it hitting by the river, you look at odds of hitting it on the turn (+ some implied odds, but keeping it simple).
Last post, won't spam anymore. Will read the last responses.
GL !
Originally posted by jules97
Originally posted by mbml
sauce produces vids at RIO.Anyway, my WR is -75bb/100 for T6o specifically and sample size is decent (388 hands).
Interesting.
Just to confirm, this is from flatting the BB v BTN opens only? It doesn't include opening T6 on the BTN or 3bets or anything else?
yes. Though I only flat it against min-raises and I would fold against 2.5bb opens
@unshpe: I think he got it wrong. The guy in position is able to see free cards more often so he should have more chances at hitting one of his outs. On the other hand, the guy out of position will often not hit anything and will be forced to fold with Ten High on the Flop.
Note: We are not asking you to call as long as you have >22% equity since equity > pot odds of 22%. You need to discount the amount of PF equity you have because you don't get to realize it all the time. So when you have marginal hands, the amount of equity you get to realize is less than your preflop equity.
On the other hand, for hands with nut potential, you may actually end up having more "realizable equity" than your actual PF equity. For example, with a small pocket pair you could hit a set and stack your opponent's top pair. Basically this mostly refers to hands with some nut potential.
Originally posted by WillyD
Hahaha yeah sorry... I think it can easily be profitable though... all the best players defend way wider than you can imagine (mbml pleno sauce123, etc)
I think you cannot compare mbml and/or pleno to sauce. It's like comparing NHL (sauce) teams to AHL (pleno, mbml). I don't mean that mbml or pleno are bad or something, just saying you can't compare two different leagues as equal.
Sauce wouldnt be able to far surpass the winrates of either mbml or myself.
The whole training site arguments are myths and pokerstrategy so underrated by 99% of people
Mbml
Lnternet
Oblioo
Pleno
Uri peleg
Are 5 of the biggest winners in today's current games teaching those games. Sauce plays high stakes hu PLO and other coaches from most sites either don't play anymore or don't win anymore.
We're talking about specifically 6max Holden which mbml and I have played and won as much as anybody over the last 4 months or so (poker is forever evolving so talking about galfond or are jones winrates 4 years ago isn't fair)
Ofc he is smarter than both of us put together and theoretically is sound and if he really wanted to be I'm sure he'd be the best 6max no limit player at 500nl but were talking about defending ranges and were talking about making a hand profitable so the fact mbml play as much as we do and win as much as we do should definitely be a man consideration when thinking about if its good to defend.
There's 2 main flaws though
1) the fact that we can realize as much equity with these hands is because of 1a) an overall gameplan and 2a) a lot of experience
And
2) at 50nl or 10nl or whatever stake you play the rake will be significantly bigger and thus a huge consideration and it will probably mean that t6 is either a fold or a close call. The hand in question is t6o at 500nl and is a super easy call, especially with mbmls ability to realize his equity better than most.
What about 3b preflop? I understand that it totaly depends on the player, playing a 3b pot oop is just a pain. I would rather 3b t6 pre then flatting, but dunno.
question for mbml:
If you could choose again to post T6 hand or not, what would you choose? ♦
It all depends on opponent tendancies how we construct our 3betting range. Generally 3betting every kqo combo for value at a bare minimum. You don't need to 3bet that much oop if you do then you start trying to balance and then you need to,play lots of inflated pots oop with hands like t6. Immediate odds are so good just can take your price most of the time. It's more important to develop flop check raising rages than pre flop 3betting ranges IMO.
Anyway I shouldn't write too much heh
Sorry mbml
You can actually compare something as basic as blind defence with high stakes and nosebleed players... sauce certainly defends even wider than pleno and mbml though
The point was actually you and other micro/small stakes players questionning the defend while mbml and pleno know way more about it
Originally posted by pleno1
Sauce wouldnt be able to far surpass the winrates of either mbml or myself.
Ofc he is smarter than both of us put together and theoretically is sound and if he really wanted to be I'm sure he'd be the best 6max no limit player at 500nl but were talking about defending ranges and were talking about making a hand profitable so the fact mbml play as much as we do and win as much as we do should definitely be a man consideration when thinking about if its good to defend.
I think you have to decide which one. 
So he can surpass or not?
Originally posted by Rihard4a
Originally posted by pleno1
Sauce wouldnt be able to far surpass the winrates of either mbml or myself.
Ofc he is smarter than both of us put together and theoretically is sound and if he really wanted to be I'm sure he'd be the best 6max no limit player at 500nl but were talking about defending ranges and were talking about making a hand profitable so the fact mbml play as much as we do and win as much as we do should definitely be a man consideration when thinking about if its good to defend.
I think you have to decide which one.
Far surpass.
Ie if there was a nl10 player winning at 1bb/100 and I won at 10bb I would far surpass him.
If I win at 5bb/100 and sauce wins at 7 that isn't far surpassing but would make him the biggest winner.
I never understood what your problem is, you're always looking for the smallest degrees of a problem. Lets let mbml continue his blog!
Originally posted by mbml
you are oop
your hand is weak and not super playable.Thus, you need significantly more equity to justify the call PF. At the same time the odds offered are like 22% which is extremely cheap. But you get something like 37% equity which is more than enough to compensate.
As a micro player who folds ~80% to steals, this is like 
How would you determine the equity to pot odds difference to play a bad playability hand.
Something like Q2o vs a Btn min rai (for eg. say 33% Open) gives us ~34% equity and 22% pot odds.
Would 12% be enough compensation or should the difference be much higher vs those kind of hands assuming skill level b/n both players are similar.
Originally posted by pleno1
Anyway I shouldn't write too much hehSorry mbml
Now now, a sicko is always entitled to hijack anyone's thread 
Originally posted by pleno1
Originally posted by Rihard4a
Originally posted by pleno1
Sauce wouldnt be able to far surpass the winrates of either mbml or myself.
Ofc he is smarter than both of us put together and theoretically is sound and if he really wanted to be I'm sure he'd be the best 6max no limit player at 500nl but were talking about defending ranges and were talking about making a hand profitable so the fact mbml play as much as we do and win as much as we do should definitely be a man consideration when thinking about if its good to defend.
I think you have to decide which one.
Far surpass.
Ie if there was a nl10 player winning at 1bb/100 and I won at 10bb I would far surpass him.
If I win at 5bb/100 and sauce wins at 7 that isn't far surpassing but would make him the biggest winner.
I never understood what your problem is, you're always looking for the smallest degrees of a problem. Lets let mbml continue his blog!
The guy obviously has some hidden resentments and all he does is add a negative tone to this very interesting topic over the last few pages...