[Closed] $.1/$.2 FR KK in Multiway pot

The raise is definitely not spewy, you are ahead of every hand except a straight. Against certain players I'd even cap this but against an unknown I think calling the river 3-bet is the best idea.

Thanks Terrorblade

What is the argument for capping? Are we putting CO on a river bluff enough of the time to make a further bet EV+? Checked COs stats afterward and was VPIP 17% with nil PF and 0.7 AF... would this info make the play any different with a river bet and/or call?

Just pretty frustrated as have had a couple of sessions of just bleeding cash and not sure if I'm overplaying hands or just getting the bad end of the stick.

It's the inevitablility of seeing the AQ - which is what CO had in this case - and losing a hand in which I was probably ahead in till the river, I'm second guessing my play.

My gut feeling about this hand is that you see people that you already said you put on draws suddenly reverse direction on the river. They were checking all along and now MP2 bets. If you had checked to his bet you would have seen SB raise all in and MP2 re-raising. WTF is going on? You hold the 3rd best hand (after AQ and Q9) and all the A Q and 9 are still out there. AQ is definitively a hand you would raise from MP2 plus you said the table was slow playing. At that point I probably would have folded because I know I'll get to see the guys card because of the all-in. You then learn if he was bluffing or not and can use that information later. Or if I had been last one you call just to see his cards and you're wiser for the next time.

Remember, bluffing is though at limit especially that the guy knew you had a made hand for being so aggressive all along. Attempting to bluff you on the river would be adventurous.

Ok firstly, the argument for a cap would be like this. For starters at this limit the default player is loose/passive/bad to some extent. There are a few tight aggressive players such as your self lurking around who would raise a King on the river.

There are even those players who are kinda crazy anyway and regardless of the limit would bet/3-bet as a bluff because that's what they do. MP2 to us is unknown so could be any one of those (most likely the loose/passive-ish variant) so we prefer raise/call.

The reason we raise here is there are many worse hands that will bet the river. Firstly theres a chance he'd do this with a K. Secondly there's a chance that he would do this with a slowplayed 2-pair/set or a bit less likely cause you're holding KK a 2-pair involving a K that he hit on the river.

I see players every single session I play who wait till there's no flush draw arrived on the river to raise top pair/2-pair/set.

In short you're behind Q9/AQ and ahead of every 2-pair/set/1pair combo + the fact that SB is shortstacked and we're hardly ever behind him and we can disregard his actions. The fact is that even players with passive stats can act strangely and we need to raise this river for value in the long run, after MP2's 3-bet we can't fold as we're getting insanely good odds.

Thanks guys for the help.

@ trucmuche04:

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

"My gut feeling about this hand is that you see people that you already said you put on draws suddenly reverse direction on the river."

Not quite... I actually put them on top pair, possibly two pair or a slow played set. I did note that AQ or Q9 were the only two really possible drawing hands and figured AQ was a possible hand as was they have just hit top pair, or two pair on the river, which would also explain the reverse in play.

"Remember, bluffing is though at limit especially that the guy knew you had a made hand for being so aggressive all along. Attempting to bluff you on the river would be adventurous."

Yeah, again pretty much expected they had a hand and as you say I had the third best hand behind AQ and Q9. Given the pre flop action I was really only worried about AQ. The effective second best hand in a pot of that size given the possibility the play from MP2 could be explained by a number of hands made me make the call.

@ Terrorblade

Cool, thanks again for the reply.

I'm pleased because that was more or less the reasoning process I went through making the river raise/call. At least for the present I'll keep trying to apply pressure where I'm likely good and getting great odds in this sort of situation.

I had two hands of similar nature destroy my session and I really just needed confirmation I hadn't lost the plot!