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aleasy77
Joined: 03.03.2014

Hello what about You think this hand. Preflop I decide 3bet on BB vs open SB with this hand. On flop I decide cbet, after get check-call turn is king so I again bet to put presure for some pockets like 77, 88, TT but I get call so I decide check-back river. Unknown player.

And bonus hand like ggpoker train my mindset on tournaments...


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Don't you think that flop hits him better?


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yangmartins
Joined: 28.11.2009

Imo, deffense is OK.
Cbet flop is OK. A lot of hands connecting that flop need a T and you block one, so I think the Cbet is OK. Value is image dependent, but I don't see problem going 1/2pot.
When you are called on Flop, there really is no point betting the turn. Any hand that is to fold would've fold flop most of the times.
Reach the river with less € invested and in a doubled board, your A has some SD value, so you can chbh if he allows, or pay a small bet. Imo is more profitable taking those $0.36 you betted on turn and use them to call river, as you induct some bluffs from villain.


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yangmartins
Joined: 28.11.2009

Originally posted by nitrol
Don't you think that flop hits him better?

Do you think, with two J on the board?
I'd range villain in any low to mid pocket (let's say 22 to TT). AQ if he's passive. KQ. Maybe KJ, KT, JQ, JT,9T but hardly the J and T combos, as T is in our hand and there are two J on the board. The turn hits more of the range I place villain in, tbh.
I think hero perceived range here is a little stronger connecting the flop, as it includes higher pockets (99, TT, QQ, KK, AA), AJ, and obviously the AT and depending on how he's been playing, more 9T, JT combos than villain.

But hero perceived range is not something one should consider in NL2.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Board: Jd9hJs
Odds Win Draw
SB 68.68% 66.32% 2.37% { TT-77, AQs-A9s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo, KJo }
BB 31.32% 28.95% 2.37% { AcTd }


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jiffybag
Joined: 21.12.2010

I prefer a check on this flop. I think villains 3bet calling range has a lot more floats that connect well with this flop.
AQ, KQ, KT, QT, Q9, Q8, T9, T8, 98, 87, 77, 88, TT. I'm not completely against a cbet but I think Vs folding range is really small on this flop. On the turn some of the floats just got there.

That bonus hand :pcuser:


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yangmartins
Joined: 28.11.2009

Originally posted by nitrol
Board: Jd9hJs
Odds Win Draw
SB 68.68% 66.32% 2.37% { TT-77, AQs-A9s, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo, KJo }
BB 31.32% 28.95% 2.37% { AcTd }

I think this flop is very good to discuss different strategies, but to do so and for the sake of the argument, I will forget we are playing NL2.
Also, I am just exposing my oppinion, not attacking yours. I think either check or bet are acceptable in this flop. I will just try to justify an high frequency of cbeting this flop.

1. Considering the specific hand equity vs "your" range is 30/70, if we eliminate any possible FE, a 30% would be EV=0.
I like 1/3 cbet on spots like this, but I don't know if hero bets frequently 1/2 or not. If he usually bets 1/2, changing betsize on such spot would be a tell.

2. I think we need to consider villain range somewhere like this: 55-JJ,A2s-AQs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,ATo-AQo,KTo+
(It doesn't make much sense for me that he plays AJo and not AQo, nor that he is on flop with KJ but not with KQ). With this range on villain: 37.23% vs 50.02
Now, from this range:
2.1 Hands we have some fold equity against: TT,55-88,AQs,A2s-ATs,KQs,KTs,QTs,T9s,98s,AQo,ATo,KQo,KTo 44% vs 40%
2.1.1: hands that we beat: A2s-A8s,KTs,QTs,ATo,KQo,KTo
2.1.1 hands that beat us: TT,55-88,AQs,T9s,98s,AQo,ATo
2.2 Hands we don't have FE against: we are less that 5% as they have J, or 99.

Against 2.2 nothing to do they will pay, we will lose, but what's the frequency of those hands?
Against 2.1.1 Isn't likely they will pay, but some of them we need to protect because of the live K and Q out there
Against 2.1.2 Here, imo, is where the focus should be. I think we have some FE to explore here.

My point is accounting for 2.2 and 2.1.1 making the cbet an EV=0 play, beacause of frequencies, the 2.1.2 is where we will be doing/losing money.
Will the villain fold enough to justify a 1/2 cbet? If he folds AQ and his bottom pockets, I think is a go. If not we are burning money.

Was I clear, or was my process confusing?

P.S. Looking at it on a strictly range basis hero 3bet vs villain call:
Hero: 77+,A7s+,K9s+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KJo+,QJo: 53%
Villain: 77-88,A9s-AJs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,ATo+,KQo: 39%

Villain range has capped off 4bet hands. That's why I say flop favours our range instead of villains.
I am not saying it favours our hand vs his range. But the specific hand is bottom of our 3bet range.

Just some additional info, if the Js were 7s, our 3bet range would be affected by a 3% decrease and his increased 1%. Again, flop favours the 3bettor range and I didn't include suited connectors on villain calling range. This was just an exercise.

Bonus question: How would you play TT on that flop?


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aleasy77
Joined: 03.03.2014

I have question that big aces can be profitable in 3bet pots or we more time lose money in situation like this hand? In another spot villan must call on flop KJ5 with 99 when I 3bet preflop and he call me. So maybe I should more times fold preflop and so I haven't problem postflop.


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SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

I have fixed the pictures for you. Now you don't need to click on links.
First hand it will be tough to barrel multiple streets against a unknown.
Cbet flop seems altight, but after that I would slowdown.
2nd hand is a tournament hand. I would raise the flop around 800 and shove most turns with less than a pot size bet effective behind. As played I would most likely still shove with a round pot size behind. River is standard and unlucky.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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