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Backdoor xr

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xenomorphic
Joined: 29.12.2010

Villain is an unknown.

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $66.45 (265.8 bb)
Hero (BB): $26.16 (104.6 bb)
UTG: $25 (100 bb)
MP: $25.70 (102.8 bb)
CO: $38.42 (153.7 bb)
BTN: $66.56 (266.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5♥ 6♥
3 folds, BTN raises to $0.50, SB folds, Hero calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.10) 7♣K♥2♠ (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.68, Hero raises to $2.48

Is this good or bad? Why?


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24 replies
Pichux
Joined: 03.02.2009

Depends strongly on the villain. As we have no info on him I wouldn't mind such moves with some unknown players. It builds up more aggro image that could help us in the long run. Also, when we hit our runner it has great tilt value. I think there's going to be trouble if villain is decent or good reg. We represent very narrow range of hands and could not get his TP to fold until showdown or just get played back without any info where we stand.


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

I wouldn't go for x/r on this dry board against unknown. You could call and x/r turn if you improve. Or 3bet prflop.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I prefer 3 betting preflop.
I know that you raised cause you have BDFD+BDSD and plenty of cards to barrel on the turn...
but still the board is dry... and I won't do it.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

Originally posted by nitrol
I prefer 3 betting preflop.

That's interesting, why do you want to 3bet it?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Cause the small SCs do not play well postflop OOP. Cannot make strong pairs and it is hard to make value OOP if you hit your draw.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

We're playing against a minraise here, 56s is definitely a profitable call. We actually have to be calling worse hands than this one. The question is only whether it can work even better as a 3bet. What kind of 3bet strategy do you use against 2x BU?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

SB vs BTN 56s is a 3bet bluff. If you want to call- call, I am 3 betting here. :)
It is normal for BTN to open for 2bb...


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AlvisR
Joined: 27.02.2009

Originally posted by nitrol
SB vs BTN 56s is a 3bet bluff. If you want to call- call, I am 3 betting here. :)
It is normal for BTN to open for 2bb...

your thought process is ok when you are SB vs BU but he is BB vs BU :)


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I meant BBvsBTN.


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AlvisR
Joined: 27.02.2009

Originally posted by nitrol
I meant BBvsBTN.

ok then 56s is too good to 3b, there are lots of other suited hands to 3bet vs minraise, if you dont aggree then you are defending too nitty imo


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Call me a nit then. :)


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Afulibador
Joined: 21.08.2009

This flop is the standard "cbet perfect" flop. If u raise it, villain can think u are raising for bluff more often.
On the other hand, when u just call and them make a x/r ott, u represents way more strengh, and gets way more folds imo.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

Originally posted by nitrol
Call me a nit then. :)

You don't seem very eager to learn new things but I guess I will write for the other readers.

In your post you said 56s is a 3bet bluff so I assume you are 3-betting a polarised range. When this is the case, you want to 3bet bluff with the hands that aren't +EV calls. This is the whole idea of having a polarised range - it allows you to make a part of your folding range profitable. When you start 3-betting +EV calls, you throw that advantage away.

3-betting 56s can make sense only if you are 3-betting merged here and doing it reasonably wide.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I do not know why you decided to be my Teacher...
But in his Walkthrough series, w34z3l uses same range for 3B:
BBvsBTN JJ+, AJs+, K4s-K2s, Q6s-Q2s, J6s, T7s, 97s-96s, 86s-85s, 75s+, 64s+, 53s+, 43s, AQo+

JJ+, AK, AQ, AJs is aparently for value and the others as a bluff.
If you have a big sample size in your HEM, please look at 65s calling from BB and see how you play it...

And, there is no need to 3bet merged in this situation.


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kriko92
Joined: 16.11.2010

I haven't decided to be your teacher, just the reason I'm posting here is to try to help other players (and I hope I turn out to be wrong somewhere so I can learn something too). Anyway...

This range seems fine to play against bigger size, against minraise we can call wider. Odds are important here. Btw 56s isn't included in the range you've written.
I checked my sample for the spot and 56s and similar hands seem to be slightly losing. This is perfectly fine as we're playing BB and it is a profitable call if we lose less than 100 bb/100.


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xenomorphic
Joined: 29.12.2010

Thank you for the input guys, I am very aware it can go into a 3betting range, however if you do this you are simply underdefending in the BB vs a BU open. But the question was a postflop one :) This is a very typical calling hand OOP.

Originally posted by VaskataBuci
I wouldn't go for x/r on this dry board against unknown

Originally posted by nitrol
I know that you raised cause you have BDFD+BDSD and plenty of cards to barrel on the turn...
but still the board is dry... and I won't do it.

Could you guys please elaborate as to why this is bad? Just "the board is dry" is a little vague and I don't quite get it.

Thanks for the responses!


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

On this board with x/r you will be representing only 22, 77 and a lot of pure air, and u wont get much credit from villain, who should be calling you really wide. Plus, you probably are not x/r 77 here or at least not always. Which makes your range too bluff heavy imo.
Not saying x/r is bad - i'm sure you will get enough folds to be profitable. I just prefer x/c and play it more aggressively ott.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

On this board K72r even sets are not raising on flop. They will raise turn. Not a single value hand makes sense.


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LuckyManFromLT
Joined: 12.11.2013

I wouldn't 3b 65s in this spot as well, but it's kind borderline hand, you can call you can 3b, depends on your gameplan/BU.

As played, I would raise only if I have solid sample on BU, floating is better, but you can fold it vs unknown. Hands like QJs/JTs/T9s/98s ( with backdoors on this board) are a lot better candidates


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