Originally posted by Blazeto21
yes
Way to enter the raffle dude ♠_frown:
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Originally posted by samni
I couldn't imagine too many other hands playing like he did then AJ.
AJ, KJ, QJ, JT are likely (I mean, given that you block them, not so much, but whatever) hands.
You have 2 jacks in your hand. Not 1. You have 2. You're massively blocking a J. But still he can have the other (and he does 95% of the time in a situation like this on NL5).
To end this stupid fight, if we can call it a fight, I think the hand is totally fine, from the beginning to the end.
We all want to learn, this is suposed to be a healthy discussion forum. I may have been too agressive in my previous posts, but I'm a TAG (stupid joke :f_cool:). I'm sorry for that.
But I must keep saying this is a doubt with no sense. The call OTR is completely obvious, there's no way around it.
I can't fold this even if he shows me AJ 
Originally posted by samni
From what point do you consider folding to a single bet in this spot otf?
You mean what sizing makes me fold JJ ? Well exploitatively speaking I'd probably fold to an overbet and to a pot because I don't expect people to bomb with less given the field 
And theoretically speaking I'd look at my whole calling pre range here to see where JJ is at into it and then make the computation of the minimum defense frequency required against the given bet.
If I decide to follow this more balanced without info type of path JJ is probably a call against most coherent sizings as it should easily be into our top 50% range, meaning it should be a theoretical call against pot or less.
Anyway I think the craziness of this topic isn't that you don't understand the spot and are result oriented or what but that you took what was just a pot bet + one quarter of quark of the slightest atom of a chip as being an overbet, because it's literally more than the pot right ? And Lemon said when they bet "more than the pot" it's never a bluff.
Sure. Lemon do know his shit. Watching his coachings is a great idea. Learning about population tendancies too. But he was talking about "real" overbets, not pot-like shove river bets !
Chinese proverb : Give a HUD to a man, he'll exploit one day, but teach him to use a tracker... and he'll complain about his AIEV all his life 
"Si debis pedere, pedis superbe. (If you must fart, fart proudly)" VorpalF2F
MyFloxyBabY
Where can I see his coachings video about it? Is it recorded somewhere?
I tried to calculate MDF OTF. I don´t know exactly how it should be done MW, so it might be wrong. This is how I calculated it. Together with SB we need to defend 76% of the time. I divided it by two, which is 38%. Then I took away another 4% as I believe SB should defend more, because he is last to act. So, we should defend 34% of our range OTF.
This is the flop range I assigned us: JJ-66, AQs-A8s, A5s-A2s, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo
This is the flop range I´d defend: JdJh, JdJs, JdJc, 9d9h, 9d9c, 9h9c, AdQd, AsQs, KhQh, KsQs, KcQc, AdJd, KhJh, KsJs, KcJc, QdJd, AdTd, KhTh, KsTs, KcTc, QdTd, JdTd, Ad9d, Ah9h, Ac9c, Td9d, Th9h, Tc9c, Ad8d, 9d8d, 9h8h, 9c8c, 8d7d, 7d6d, As5s, Ad4d, Ad3d, Ad2d
(u can put this into equilab to see it in matrix)
So, as I thought, JJ are the bottom line of what I´d defend. With the diamond we call, without we fold.
Haha well done Mozzek, I had forgotten about SB still being on the hand on the flop, that really decreases our MDF indeed.
We could debate about your preflop calling range though, but to each its own, the process seems good anyway.
Chinese proverb : Give a HUD to a man, he'll exploit one day, but teach him to use a tracker... and he'll complain about his AIEV all his life
"Si debis pedere, pedis superbe. (If you must fart, fart proudly)" VorpalF2F
I offten make this kind of riverbets with nuts, this spot is great to shove. a) what value you get when you make a smaller bet and op does not have J? Really thin valuebet? But when he does have J then he calls 99,99% times. b) i block some outs, this looks fishy, i need to call. c) mne pohui. I have seen rivercalls with A high. But first of all 4bet pre, people dont really 5bet/shove there if they dont have KK-AA. Some stats would help.
Originally posted by samni
Originally posted by Blazeto21
yesWay to enter the raffle dude ♠_frown:
I don't think so. Than you need to have at least 30 spaces in his post 
Originally posted by reggie123
But first of all 4bet pre, people dont really 5bet/shove there if they dont have KK-AA.
Well, maybe, but it's all the more reason NOT to 4bet JJ pre here and to prefer remaining much more polarized, come on.
Or you can 4bet range and see what happens, but I would advice against it 
Chinese proverb : Give a HUD to a man, he'll exploit one day, but teach him to use a tracker... and he'll complain about his AIEV all his life
"Si debis pedere, pedis superbe. (If you must fart, fart proudly)" VorpalF2F