QQ+ maybe JJ and AK too. And pocket pairs if me and the opponent has enough money behind us. That is the only hands i can think of=/
If i'm gonna call something like AQ+, KQ. I would have been hoplessly lost and insecure like the nit. If he don't cbet, i think he's slowplaying. If he cbet's i don't know if i'm ahead or not. If i call his cbet and checks turn, most of the time they bet on the river and it's getting too expensive to find out if my hand is good or not. But if i could only be good at estimate ranges, i probably could have played more hands?
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right now you are using a one-strategy fits all type of approach. Your calling range should change based on your own position, as well as how wide the villain is opening from that particular position.
Useful stats to look at: Raise In First by position.
Example: UTG opens to 3BB. Let's say I'm in the BU. I look at his Raise First In % from UTG.
If it's 10%, I'm going to be extremely conservative, only calling AQs, AK, 22-QQ and I will only 3-bet KK+.
If it's 15%, I'm going to call AQ, AJs, KQs, 22-QQ, AK, 3-bet KK+ with some bluffs, and maybe I'll call some other decent suited broadway hands like KJs ATs KTs JTs QTs QJs
Example 2: SB opens to 3BB. I'm in the BB. I know he steals 50% from the BB. Now I need to defend much wider or else he can open a really wide range and steal with any two cards to make an instant profit even without seeing the flop.
In this situation, I'm probably calling A2+, K2s+, K7+, 54s+, all broadways, Q8+, J8+, many suited hands etc
Now I don't expect you to defend as wide as I do. But still you should try to play looser - there's no way you can beat any game above NL2 if you continue playing so tight because people are just going to use constant aggression against you and make a ton of cheap bluffs vs you - They'll let go of their hands if you show any signs of strength.
Useful stats to look at: Raise In First by position.
What is the abbreviation of it in HM2? Is it TOT RFI?
Example: UTG opens to 3BB. Let's say I'm in the BU. I look at his Raise First In % from UTG. If it's 10%, I'm going to be extremely conservative, only calling AQs, AK, 22-QQ and I will only 3-bet KK+. If it's 15%, I'm going to call AQ, AJs, KQs, 22-QQ, AK, 3-bet KK+ with some bluffs, and maybe I'll call some other decent suited broadway hands like KJs ATs KTs JTs QTs QJs
Why is 10% so much difference than 15% and how do you find that out by yourself? And if you call all types of broadway hands when his raising from UTG, isn't it a bigger chance of you being dominated than not?
I know he steals 50% from the BB
You mean SB right?
Example 2: SB opens to 3BB. I'm in the BB. I know he steals 50% from the BB. Now I need to defend much wider or else he can open a really wide range and steal with any two cards to make an instant profit even without seeing the flop. In this situation, I'm probably calling A2+, K2s+, K7+, 54s+, all broadways, Q8+, J8+, many suited hands etc
What is your plan on the flop if you're gonna call with these hands? Are you 3betting with those hands?
Now I don't expect you to defend as wide as I do. But still you should try to play looser - there's no way you can beat any game above NL2 if you continue playing so tight because people are just going to use constant aggression against you and make a ton of cheap bluffs vs you - They'll let go of their hands if you show any signs of strength.
Yes i know. I just haven't figure out yet how to be looser profitably.
1. TOT RFI is the overall one. Don't use that - It's not too useful. Look at the positional RFI, so maybe UTG RFI, MP RFI, CO RFI etc.
Since you are playing NL2, sample size is going to be a huge problem for you as NL2 has the largest player pool and you probably end up playing against different opponents everyday. Positional stats require huge samples to become accurate.
So your substitute for this is to estimate someone's positional RFI based on overall VPIP/PFR. For example someone playing 22/18 is probably raising 12-14% from UTG and 40-50% from BU whereas someone playing 30/24 is likely to be raising 18-20% from UTG and 70-80% from BU.
You should also develop some sort of default strategy vs an unknown player. Just try to develop reads on whether they are tight or loose or fishy/passive.
2. How do I find that out? By having a huge sample and playing a lot with the same opponent (or by datamining). But as mentioned previously, a lot of the time your sample wouldn't be accurate if you only have a few hundred hands on the opponent. So you mostly have to make educated guesses as mentioned in 1.
3. Yes SB
4. hmmm i would usually 3-bet TT+/AQ+ in BB vs SB, maybe even 99. You could also add some bluffs (like 56s) or some weaker value hands (like AJ/KQ) but it's dependent on how the opponent reacts to 3-bets. For now I would forget about those stuff, focus on knowing how to adjust your value range first. TT+/AQ+ is 4.6% of hands
What's my plan if I call? It doesn't mean that you have to always fold if you miss. On plenty of dry flops you can definitely defend pretty wide. For example, A5 would be an easy call on a 884r flop, since we can expect SB to cbet most of his range on this dry flop and A5 would have pretty close to 50% equity vs such a wide range.
You can also bluff raise some flops (like K:dQ:h on a T:d7:h5:d board or J:s8:s on a Q:cT:c2:h board). Basically you can make some postflop moves with hands with some sort of potential to improve. You could also call flop with the intention of bluffing the Turn or River. Remember that as the guy in position, you have a huge advantage.
Sorry for such a late response. I've been very busy with work and school.
It's probably a bit hard for you to take up with this discussion now but i'm gonna try to play more looser as you said.
1. TOT RFI is the overall one. Don't use that - It's not too useful. Look at the positional RFI, so maybe UTG RFI, MP RFI, CO RFI etc. Since you are playing NL2, sample size is going to be a huge problem for you as NL2 has the largest player pool and you probably end up playing against different opponents everyday. Positional stats require huge samples to become accurate. So your substitute for this is to estimate someone's positional RFI based on overall VPIP/PFR. For example someone playing 22/18 is probably raising 12-14% from UTG and 40-50% from BU whereas someone playing 30/24 is likely to be raising 18-20% from UTG and 70-80% from BU.
1. So if his stats are like 30/24, i could call him in position with some broadways/pocketpairs?
2. But if he steals 70-80%, what could i do if i'm in the blinds if he never fold to 3bets? Just wait and call with good hands?
So your substitute for this is to estimate someone's positional RFI based on overall VPIP/PFR. For example someone playing 22/18 is probably raising 12-14% from UTG and 40-50% from BU whereas someone playing 30/24 is likely to be raising 18-20% from UTG and 70-80% from BU.
For me, at least now in the beginning, it's hard for me to just estimate his UTG openraise range based on his VPIP/PFR. I can't just say if he's stats are 28/21 he's probably raising 14-17% like you do. So what do i need to work on to be able estimate as good as you do?
Example: UTG opens to 3BB. Let's say I'm in the BU. I look at his Raise First In % from UTG. If it's 10%, I'm going to be extremely conservative, only calling AQs, AK, 22-QQ and I will only 3-bet KK+. If it's 15%, I'm going to call AQ, AJs, KQs, 22-QQ, AK, 3-bet KK+ with some bluffs, and maybe I'll call some other decent suited broadway hands like KJs ATs KTs JTs QTs QJs
Now this crashes with all the things i've learned in the NL Beginners Course-->The 8 Player Types, so i'm a bit confused.
I've learned about the 8 player types and i've also learned the rule of thumb there which is:
- If he is loose, be tight
- If he is tight, loosen' up
- If he bluffs alot, be passive and let him bluff
- If he is passive, the the initiative
The example above seems like the looser villain opens, the looser you call and i just can't understand how i can apply what you teached me in the example and apply the rule of thumb at the same time if you know what i mean.
4. hmmm i would usually 3-bet TT+/AQ+ in BB vs SB, maybe even 99. You could also add some bluffs (like 56s) or some weaker value hands (like AJ/KQ) but it's dependent on how the opponent reacts to 3-bets. For now I would forget about those stuff, focus on knowing how to adjust your value range first. TT+/AQ+ is 4.6% of hands
What did you mean with focus on knowing how to adjust my value range first and why are you telling me that TT+/AQ+ is 4.6% of hands?
1. Yes probably calling most broadways, a bunch of mid suited connectors like 89s 9Ts JTs, some suited Aces and some PPs. Work on your postflop first cos if you are playing too weak, then your preflop calls will be -EV
2. if he steals you relentlessly, then folding and waiting for good hands is basically falling into his trap. You are letting him get away with it and you are getting exploited by such plays.
What you can do is to 3-bet him a lot, or call a lot and take it away from him postflop. If he doesn't fold to 3bets, cbet flop a lot. if he doesn't, then cbet turn a lot. Basically the weaker his range is, the more pressure you can put on him postflop.
This is probably information overload, you are only playing NL2 and are still fairly new to the game. So try not to implement everything I say at once and slowly work on loosening up your ranges.
1. This comes with experience. I can't teach you that.
2. Wider range = defend wider. The beginner's course is not exactly correct. Let me rephrase whatever you read there.
A. The Looser the TABLE, the tighter you should play
B. The Tighter the TABLE, the looser you should play
There's a distinct difference between the table and player. If everyone is playing very loosely, then raising a weak hand, especially when you are OOP with multiple players left to act behind you is just burning money. If you raise your 98s here and get called by 3 other guys behind you, you can't really bluff postflop
On the other hand, if the table is tight and everyone keeps folding, then opening wide ranges especially from later positions is good cos the blinds will just keep folding and you can steal effectively.
3. your 3-bet range needs to vary based on how wide your opponent is raising from a particular position. Imagine if someone is raising 100% of hands. Don't you think that hands like AJ and KQ suddenly becomes much stronger and should be 3-betted instead? KQ beats K2-KJ and Q2-QJ, AJ beats A2-AT and J2-JK.
I just told you the 4.6% to let you know what each number mean
AA = 0.5% of starting hands
KK, AA = 0.9%
QQ+, AK = 2.6% of starting hands
JJ+, AK = 3% of starting hands
99+, AQ+ = 5% of starting hands
This means that if you look at someone's 3-betting % and his range only comprised value hands (with no bluff hands like 67s), then that's what you should expect his range to look like.
2. Wider range = defend wider. The beginner's course is not exactly correct. Let me rephrase whatever you read there. A. The Looser the TABLE, the tighter you should play B. The Tighter the TABLE, the looser you should play
A) So the looser the table the tighter i should play because bluffing becomes less profitable since the possibility of multiple people calling increases and the looser the table the more i can simply just wait for good hands...?
I'm trying to understand the difference between the tablestyle and the playerstyle and let's say a fish raises from CO, his stats are 50/30 and im on the BTN. You mean that i could call with like 98s profitably if the overall tablestyle is tight or something? And if so, what's my plan postflop?
So if the table is tight, i make more money on bluffs with SC, JT+ than getting paid of with AK, QQ+ and vice versa: If the table is loose i make more money on getting paid of with big hands than with SC, JT+?
1. Another question. When you estimate ranges on people and valuebetting. How do you figure out if to valuebet in the middle of a hand, that you are the favorite on average? I doubt you estimate his range vs your hand in the middle of a hand in equilab.
Thank you so much for helping me.
1. If u work on your game enough u dont need to use equilab in game u just know based on experience. Anyway i would put him on a range and i wont know my exact equity but ill be thinking abt the better andworse hands like kickers and all those stuff.
2. Lets give u another example.
Utg opens with a wide range
A) U are in the bb. Since you are headsup vs him, it makes intuitive sense to defend wider vs a weaker range.
B) On the other hand if u are in MP, and if the entire table is loose, u should tighten up. What usually happens is that a few other players behind u will come along for the ride and u will be in a tougher situation.
Ok i thought of another extreme example to illustrate my point.
1. Utg opens with AA ONLY. You are in the bu. Your calling range should only be pocketpairs here cos u wanna setmine and crack his aces. Since he opens tight, u call tight.
2. U are in utg in a six max game. Every other player at the table is a total nit and they will always fold unless they have AA. They dont adjust.
Whats the appropriate strategy here? The best play is to open 100% of hands preflop and win the blinds 95%+ of the time every single round. You loosen up because no one is getting in your way.
So lemme rephrase my main point.
A. VS a tight opening range, call and 3b with a tight range
B. At a tight table, loosen up your opening range because people are just folding more often and u win the blinds more often.
Ok i have so many questions that it is ridiculous. So i'll think i just learn one thing at a time. What do you think i should learn first and is most important for me now? I have copied all the things you said and i will look at it again once i've understand one concept first. But i really want to understand knowing when to valuebet or not.
What i don't understand is when i put someone on a postflop callingrange, how to calculate when to valuebet or not. Since equilab only evaluate hands from flop-river, can you only figure out (in equilab) when to valuebet just on the river?
Ok i thought of another extreme example to illustrate my point
1. Utg opens with AA ONLY. You are in the bu. Your calling range should only be pocketpairs here cos u wanna setmine and crack his aces. Since he opens tight, u call tight.
1. Ok so if he open tight, i call tight with only pocked pairs. Here, you said what our plan was, to flop a set. but the last post you posted where you described if he opened wide from UTG, you didn't say what our plan was. Just that it makes intuitive sense to defend wider if he opens wider.
you can't expect me to go through every single postflop situation with you right? that's the whole point of poker, in that it's easy to learn and hard to master.
I was just attempting to explain about when to loosen up and when to tighten up, based on how loose the Initial Raiser is, or how loose the players left to act behind you are.
About Value betting:
The concept is fairly simple. What often happens is that you don't know what street you are calculating for.
Flop: When you are thinking of value betting the Flop, just key in the board for the Flop cards, then think about what worse hands are calling ON THAT PARTICULAR STREET.
The same applies for the Turn and River. I believe I have seen you keying in the Turn card as well while calculating whether you can value bet the Flop or not, just because the Turn card is displayed in the hand history, which is definitely incorrect.
you can't expect me to go through every single postflop situation with you right? that's the whole point of poker, in that it's easy to learn and hard to master.
I didn't say that you should go through every single postflop situation. I just wanted an example of what our plan could be when calling wider from a wider UTG range...
I was just attempting to explain about when to loosen up and when to tighten up, based on how loose the Initial Raiser is, or how loose the players left to act behind you are.
I know, and i've already learned alot, thanks!
Flop: When you are thinking of value betting the Flop, just key in the board for the Flop cards, then think about what worse hands are calling ON THAT PARTICULAR STREET.
I understand was you are saying. I'm just wondering, if i can think of more worse hands that could call me than better, this is a valuebet? And if i could think of more better hands that could call me than worse, i shouldn't valuebet?
I understand was you are saying. I'm just wondering, if i can think of more worse hands that could call me than better, this is a valuebet? And if i could think of more better hands that could call me than worse, i shouldn't valuebet?
Yes
About plan after calling
I can't give you a fixed answer. The wider he opens, the wider you call preflop. The wider he bets the Flop, the wider you continue (not folding, so either raise or call).
Calling with gutshots or backdoor draws or overcards are always going to be options. Just remember, if someone can bet air, you can call with air or raise with air. It's all relative.
Yay! Now i can valuebet, wohoo! I'm sorry for bothering you with all of my questions but you say you get paid per post so i don't feel too bad about it=P
I can't give you a fixed answer. The wider he opens, the wider you call preflop. The wider he bets the Flop, the wider you continue (not folding, so either raise or call). Calling with gutshots or backdoor draws or overcards are always going to be options. Just remember, if someone can bet air, you can call with air or raise with air. It's all relative.
It makes sense to me calling with ace high postflop or raise with some overcards, draws or backdoors against a wider range. But calling with it? Wouldn't i lose money in the long run then? And calling with air? even 8 high?