[Closed] JJ how is it profitable ?

You say if he has AA,KK,QQ you have 2 outs, he has 48...

Yet you say if he has any A,K,Q, he has 11 outs you have 2.

Actually, if he has any A,K,Q he has a maximum of 6 outs for a higher pair, and you have every other card in the deck. You're contradicting yourself. If you have JJ and he has AK, you are nearly even money, if he has only 1 overcard to yours you're in great shape.

JJ is not a brilliant hand, but you're certainly ahead against the vast majority of hands.

I would fold if re-raised when holding JJ.........not sure what the SSS charts say on that as I play BSS

Villian can't have A,K & Q, therefore he does not have 11 outs. He has to hit not you. You already have a pair, he needs to hit one unless he has AA KK or QQ in which case you are way behind.

If he has a lower pair, you are way ahead.

Your theories seem to discount draws. eg a flop w A K Q gives you 4 more outs even assuming villian has hit top pair

I see you posted another thread concerning poor performance with AK as well. I feel you don't really have a grasp of poker theory ATM. Study and pratice, it will come

you fail at math. JJ beats all pocket pairs, is a coinflip vs. 2 overcards and underdog vs. AA, KK, QQ. i'm too lazy to go into the outs for you, but you definitely should read some articles regarding odds and outs...

JJ is actually slight favorite agains two overcards (as is any other pocket pair). You can think of this situation as a coinflip or 50-50 though since in reality it's only like 51-49 or something in favor of JJ. So AK,AQ,KQ have 6 outs to suck out on you but you still have 2 outs to redraw if they do.

JJ is underdog against AA, KK or QQ obviously. You're still gonna win aout 20% of the times against these hands.

Against Ax, Kx and Qx where x is lower than J you are around 70% favorite because they are drawing to 3 outs and you still have your 2 outs to redraw (the exact percentrage depends on whether their cards are suited and how many straight possiblities they have).

Since you are also the guy who thinks that AK is not profitable I suggest you download Pokerstrategy Equilator from the download section here and work with it for a while. Also visit some coachings.

Originally posted by andyb43
I would fold if re-raised when holding JJ.........not sure what the SSS charts say on that as I play BSS

Don't do that....
Villain can raise you with AK, AQ, KQ, etc.

C-bet on flop where you have overpair, if he raises you then you can probably fold it depending on the board.

JJ is to weak to fold to 3-bet pre

Out of position and ploughing on with JJ..........Hand of Doom

That's that kind of answer I was looking for. Thanks !

Just saying that I'm unlucky and 51% for me doesnt do any good.
Out of 42 properly played AK. after pushing I won 17 and lost 25.
Out of 17 JJ - won 7 lost 10

Thats 11 BI lost on these two. of course there were times when i won the blinds and in the long term it would lead to profit. Just don't like the swings and start wondering what going on..

Originally posted by Vikshrasss
That's that kind of answer I was looking for. Thanks !

Just saying that I'm unlucky and 51% for me doesnt do any good.
Out of 42 properly played AK. after pushing I won 17 and lost 25.
Out of 17 JJ - won 7 lost 10

Thats 11 BI lost on these two. of course there were times when i won the blinds and in the long term it would lead to profit. Just don't like the swings and start wondering what going on..

17 times is absolutely nothing. When you have at least 500 come back and tell us it isnt working

i think I might not make it till 500. when you get your 50$ starting capital, you loose a bit before you learn the strategy on stupid mistakes lets say 10 BI and you hit so called downswing of X BI and the next thing you know your'e broke.
Will I invest my own money for such a strategy ? don't think so.
Ok i'we got bonuses cuming up, but after i get them I dont think im going to stick with SSS.
The problem is that i love poker. And I used to belevie and made everyone else believe that it is not just a game of luck. Start to doubt that.

Uhm its definatly not a game of luck.

Mathematically it cannot be luck... its impossible to be luck. Its the same as investing on the stock market.

If you have a diversified portfolio you will eliminate or be close to eliminating unsytematic risk. Your systematic risks will give you profits if you chose the right investments (do not want to get into the math).

Unsystematic risk = variance in poker
Systematic risk = pushing your money in when your ahead
Eliminating unsystematic risk/ diversifying your portfolio = playing a lot of hands

Over time variance goes away or is very minimal.

There is no luck involved given an infinite sample size.

I also lost my 50$ starting capital. Doing good now though.

Works ok-ish for me on SSS

The Hand from Hell!!!

oh god, that clip made me laugh so hard!

maybe pocket jacks are tough to play...

Every time I watch it, I roll from laughing.

So true.

This is how you play with JJ:

$0.1/$0.2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG BoldonDan79 ($14.00)
UTG+1 Hero ($66.28)
CO TheRedPainter ($10.58)
BTN chaz111 ($14.72)
SB peonme ($3.80)
BB Hariolf2 ($20.42)

Pre-flop: ($0.30, 6 players) Hero is UTG+1 J♠ J♣
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.80, 1 fold, chaz111 calls $0.80, 1 fold, Hariolf2 calls $0.60

Flop: T♥ 7♥ 4♦ ($2.50, 3 players)
Hariolf2 bets $2.50, Hero raises to $7, chaz111 folds, Hariolf2 folds

Final Pot: $12

Hero wins $11.63 ( won +$3.83 )
chaz111 lost -$0.80
Hariolf2 lost -$3.30

(In my head I am going: please fold, please fold haha)

Yeah its a freaking annoying hand overall haha

The big problem with 99-JJ is overplay. People can get sucked into thinking they hold the nuts on a rag board and shove the range straight into AA/KK's lap.

this talk of poker being luck is rubbish. JJ and AK are two of the easiest hands to play, AK being the third strongest hand (I always put this hand just ahead of QQ, mostly on playability), or 4th, if you like, making JJ the 5th strongest starting hand. Youre analysing these things and saying JJ is not profitable. When playing with fish at the low limits how can the 3rd and 5th strongest starting hands not be profitable????!! what hands do you play otherwise? only AA and KK?! you're just seeing a little variance, which is fine, happens all month long sometimes for me but it evens out. if results continue to go against you then you need to look at your strategy and how these hands are played out, which is what everyone seems to be telling you. dont give up

too bad I don't have an enough sample size and most of it is mtt ... although I have my jacks in 2bb/100 yay!

and J7o is giving me more money than AA ... gotta love low 9k sample size and mtt ♦

Originally posted by Jaissica
The big problem with 99-JJ is overplay. People can get sucked into thinking they hold the nuts on a rag board and shove the range straight into AA/KK's lap.

This is true. JJ is profitable if you know your opponent, and know his betting moves with certain hands.
If you can make some good reads then JJ is profitable too. There's a video of Hasenbraten playing JJ. Even with a King and a Queen on the board he manages to read his opponent perfectly and make the right moves, turns out his opponent called down with pocket 4's so Hasenbraten made a great play there.

You just have to really know what to do, when, and against whom.