hitting flops

Originally posted by DrDunne
4) is this always relative to an assumed range for villain?

ofc you can define "hit" in various ways, but i think this is the most useful way to think about it when thinking in terms of cbet's folding equity.

It mainly has to do with both players ranges and how each piece of these ranges interact with each other.

Like:

- how does your bluffs interact with villains value/bluffcatchers? Are you dead a lot? Do you have equity?
- How does your value interact with villains value? Is villain capped low (i mean, are you best hands a lot better than villains best hands?)
- How does your mid strength hands interact with villains weaker bluff catcher or floats? This is also important for betsizing purposes

So, in those 2 examples you gave, your analysis, it gives the impression that we should be cbetting more frequently on T72tt than on K72r, which may not be true.

Let's take another example, we open MP and villain calls BU, flop 443r

We should be cbetting very frequently, since our bluffs have good equity against villains bluffcatchers and top end value (QQ+) crushes villains range. Also, we should be betting big (75%-potsize), since we want to minimize villain's EV of calling flop with hands like AQ.

What do you mean by cbetting very frequently on 433? Bluff heavy? Or you mean balanced range will be frequent allready?

If you want to minimize EV of his weak bluff catchers, why not overbet flop, because that way we really go towards EV minimization? On one hand, if we bet smaller he is forced to defend very wide range having big equity disadvantage (not nice spot), and that way his AQ gets higher EV, but there are weaker hands now that he calls having bad EV. That way we can bet for value also AQ+.
On the other hand, by betting big, we fold his weak part of range which is very glad to fold (and we lose value vs those range) and he gets worse ev for AQ (not necessarly more value for us vs AQ if he folds it on turn).

So when villian is in so tough spot on flop, it seems to me that by betting big we just make him defend easier, overfold flop (he has to overfold some street due to equity disadvantage and for us it is worst if he overfolds flop).

Just to add about AQ EV. If we are assuming betting balanced ranges, in that case by betting bigger or smaller the EV of AQ will stay 0, since that is the definition of balanced range. So the reason to bet big shouldnt be to decrease EV of his bluff catchers because it is not possible. It should be the reason like we get avarage EV of range higher, but imo it is very hard to say if small bet or big is better.