BTN opening – Page 2 – PokerStrategy

Kyyberi · 2014-01-17T12:05:17Z

There are two different ways to play in position preflop. One is to open with a wide range from BTN/CO and one is to open with stronger range. I made a little math to find out how it really is. The Myth: In PLO25 Zoom, folding equity preflop (from BTN against the blinds) is so low that one shouldn't open trashy hands. Lets assume that the Myth is right. Of course we open any4 against nits, but against unknown players we open only for hand strength value. We are not facing a lot of 3bets from the blinds, so we don't have to adjust our betsizing against that. So we should open full pot to get the maximum value. Here is why: When we open with strong range, we will often hit stronger than our opponent. And with good hands, we will hit more than we miss. When we compare 2bb and 3,5bb raises preflop to the amount we will win postflop when we cbet 3/4 pot otf, ott and otr, it looks like this: Pot Pre - Flop - Turn - River (our value) 4 - 10 - 25 - 62,5 (31) 7 - 17,5 - 43,75 - 109,4 (55) So that small difference preflop is quite big postflop. BUT!!! Is the myth right? I looked at my database and found out that when it comes to BTN unopened, and hero opens, blinds actually fold 50% of the times on average. When hero gets called, half a pot cbet is succesfull 40% of the times. Lets analyze a situation where hero doesn't even look his cards, but plays stab and fold poker (raises pre, SB folds and BB calls, makes a half a pot cbet and gives up if called/raised). Raise 3,5bb = preflop we risk 3,5bb to win 1,5bb. To be breakeven we need 70% FE. We have only 50% so we lose -1bb in EV. OTF we cbet 3,75bb to a pot of 7,5bb. We need 33% FE to breakeven, so our EV is +0,75bb. So our total EV is -0,13bb. Raise 2,5bb = preflop we risk 2,5bb to win 1,5bb. To be breakeven we need 63% FE. We have only 50% so we lose -0,5bb in EV. OTF we cbet 2,75bb to a pot of 5,5bb. We need 33% FE to breakeven, so our EV is +0,75bb. So our total EV is +0,13bb. So if hero doesn't even look his cards and makes cbet always against one opponent, the other is -EV and the other is +EV. Results: if you open with a wide range from the BTN, it's better to open 2,5bb than 3,5bb. If you open with valuerange, you should open 3,5bb. Note: these are just the vacuum lines against unknown opponents. edited post with precise calculations 4.6.2014

Kyyberi

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Joined: 09.07.2010

Posts: 11,655

28.09.2014, 23:20 0

But that's holdem. I don't think you can apply that to PLO just like that.

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Rhodriguez

Joined: 01.10.2006

Posts: 1,564

28.12.2015, 19:53 0

I'm trying to gather the same numbers for the microstakes. One step of course is to reproduce your thougt process. And there is the problem. Right now I don't know if I miss your point, don't unterstand EV or if there is an other mistake.

I get the same numbers for preflop-EV and for postflop-EV. I also get why you weighted them 50:50 - but I don't know if you really should do that.
I would argue if you look at all three states indivually you get a negative result. 50% chance that BB folds and we win +1.5BB. On the flop we have 40% chance winning 3 (BB called our 2.5 + 0.5 from SB). But this 40% only occurs half of the time; the other half of instances BB already had folded preflop. So overall 20% of the time. The remaining 30% of times we lose our initial 2.5BB raise and our 2.75BB stab (= -5.25). 0.5*1.5BB+0.2*3BB-0.3*5.25BB = -0.225BB.

Maybe you could shed some light upon this.

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Kyyberi

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Joined: 09.07.2010

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29.12.2015, 15:17 0

But that is Holdem, where playing from the blinds is different.

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