Maneuvering multiway situations in single raised pots

Postflop sims can get quite big in terms of required RAM, as with multiple players and sizings the size of the game tree just gets huge. But I started two sims:
First is 3way UTB-BU-BB on that Q94ss flop, with postflop sizings of 33% and pot. All raises are pot. Simple, small sim to see which one solver favors.
Second is 4way UTG-CO-BU-BB on same board, with 33%/50%/75%/pot sizings, and raises can be 50%/75%/pot.

Sim takes a while to run, but initial outcome is very surprising. It seems that in my sim solver favors 33% sizing in both scenarios a lot more than other sizings. But in Vision there is only 75% sizing available, which makes me think if there is some sort of error or glitch in my sim. But as I said, the sims are just started so lets wait for a while.

Wow. In both sims 33% sizing is pretty much the only option solver uses. Which makes me think the sim is broken for some reason. Investigating the situation.

So I suppose small bets in multiway pots are the thing at least theory wise. Solver might go for bigger bets though if people continuing ranges are less elastic to sizing which is likely in reality?

Sim is definitely broken. I forgot to run another sim on older version of monker.

you're overcomplicating a spot that's for about 2 happy meals - pot & deny equity or get calls... (like having a weak wrap folding here - fantastic, a weak fd - super...)

why would you care what perfect play is here - you're not playing vs perfect players, also there EXISTS NO NASH EQUILIBRIUM FOR MORE THAN 2 PLAYERS

that is, it is not proven that there exists a stable equilibrium that is unique

If we don't care what EV our different lines have, it sounds like we don't care if we play +EV in the long run.

Generally speaking, you cant do enough comparing valuelines for EV. In the given spot though Pakichu is right at this -best strategy is to play exploitable, not gto.

This is the kinda situation that used to be very profitable in full ring games: huge field of players with small and bigger stacks. Players often make bad calls with a widen range of various holdings and then found themselfs feeling pot committed when multiple players shove it in. There's even a real chance to stack everyone with very good multiway equity when everybodys blokking everybody in a multiway shovefest.

I would never check here, it's the worst line imho.

We don't have bluffs here so I would bet the pot. I dont think that smaller sizing accomplish anything more than a larger one. Smaller stacks are putting it in if they got something. Bigger stack at the button will still call in certain spot. My thought here is that bigger betsize makes opponents to make bigger mistakes and doesn't give anyone opportunities to get proper odds for their draws.

I noticed recently one reg cbetting half pot oop in KJ7r with topset against 3 players (single raised spr 8-12). I doubled him with something I dont recall anymore, would’ve give it either way. Made a note about it since I was curious about the sizing, guess it was a same kind of situation.

In this example of mine question is also how happy are we to stack off or are we potentially even bet-folding? Now in the hand there was several shorter stacks which definitely helps.

But let's say we pot and BU pots. There are not that many hands we do great against in solid stack off range. That range can still have fair amount of draws that we would not necessarily mind to get allin on blank turn if we decided to x-c flop. If we change everyone stack deeper this stack off or not consideration would become much more relevant.

Well theory wise I believe one reason why small bet is perhaps effective in general is added fe to normal HU spot. What I mean with this is that when player faces bet he has to or should think about players behind left to act. So when player is in this sandwich situation his range will tighten more than in HU spot. Even if bettor range multiway would not be tighter (which is unlikely).

But yeah this topic also has lot of theory Vs reality issues. Especially if pots get 4+way as that just won't happen almost ever with people having solid ranges. In 3way scenarios it's much easier to face two ok opponent.

Also has to remember that when we do decide to bet in multiway pot especially in dynamic flop our range should be constructed in fashion that it will do ok in board changing situations. That range will have fair amount of hands that can dominate weaker draws. So our range doesn't necessarily mind if some draws are getting better pot odds as we want to keep them in.

I recently had spot where I defended JT98ss from BB versus MP open and two calls. Flop comes QJ9ss. So I hit straight and bottom two pair. No FD or bdfd. SB who was unknown decided to pot. So he kind of reps KT or combo hand and I just folded right away. If he bet half pot would I still fold? Probably not. Would average player in my pool fold my hand? Probably not. Was my fold good is question of its own.

Other common spot is paired boards. Like let's say flop comes JJ8ss and someone pots in 4way pot. My default is to fold pretty much everything less than trips and even some trips. Versus smaller bet though some draws might have to continue potentially drawing dead or thin.

Now these examples are in somewhat more static spot than original example. But point is often when we bet in multiway pots our range has to be stronger and part of that range doesn't really benefit that much from huge sizing. So if we simplify into pot or check it can leave EV on table quite easily. It's important to ask what our hand wants to achieve as playing in range approach is anyway less relevant in multiway spots. So we can adjust our bet sizing based on that. I know one of my potential leaks is to get bit too sticky into sizing I have simplified my strategy into even if spot would perhaps ask for different one.