Originally posted by Asaban
150 BI's are nothing in terms of tournament poker. You can drop 150 BI's quite quickly. 200 ABI is the absolut minimum imo. The more the better. There is no too tight in BRM.
What BRM would you recommend for rebuy tournaments?
hmm interesting. When I started to play MTTs I read couple of guides and couple of books (Guide was Ferguson's). Most of them believed in terms of BRM you could invest 2% of BR in a MTT. some of them 1%.
I checked again and I wasn't paranoid they really said that 
I started playing MTTs online in 2010 with that rule and never had a set back.
I think 400 ABI is way too much. Takes a long time to develop a decent bankroll. But that's just my opinion, apparently it is BS ^^ Think I was just lucky the whole time
Guess I'll be needing lots of couching if I want to start playing MTTs online again.
And to be fair, I play live way more than online. I guess it takes alot of time to lose 150 buy-ins in live tournaments 
Well - even pokerstrategy suggests 100BI's. But I don't know any mtt regular that plays with less then 200 BI's. Most of them >400. If you want to earn money longterm you need a solid mindset and must be able to play every tournament unscared. A 400 BI BRM helps a lot. Furthermore most MTT players play at Pokerstars. If you are playing MTT's with several thousand players the swings are enormous. The BRM should take this into account.
@Mikus: Depends on your style of playing them. I would normally recommend to count with 7 Buyins (Buyin, Initial Rebuy, 2 Double Rebuys, Addon). If it is a Hyperturbo you will need way more. If you play a normal Rebuy tighter 5 BI's might be sufficient.
F.e: 10$+R would be a 70$ MTT. So your bankroll should at least be at 14k$ if you only play this MTT. If you play other MTT's as well the avg BI is of importance.
Regards,
Asaban
I don't play MTT's so feel free to ignore this. It seems to me there is a considerable difference between:
a) regularly playing High Buyins MTTs (i.e $200 bi) as a source of income with a Bankroll of $6 K which I'm guessing is pretty suicidal, as Asaban makes clear; and
b) setting aside $200 pw to take a punt on a Major with the expectation of losing it.
If, for example, op currently earns $5k pcm and only needs $1.5k to live from then I don't think it's that unreasonable of him to set aside 1/4 of the "Profit" to play 4 SM's a month.
Thanks for the good advice!
I think the 100Bi rule is made so that after losing some you drop down a limit and never invest more than 1% of your BR.
400 buy ins seems like a good brm so you don't have to ever drop down a limit. Losing and dropping down stakes is probably the hardest thing about poker.
Well, i guess there are some pro's with incredibly bad BRM, if you look at the WSOP One Drop Event. I refuse to believe the Poker pro's have a bankroll of over $100.000.000. I guess they are all fishes 
You will still have to drop down in limits - even with 400BI. But if you invest into a session and you invest 1% into each MTT the end might come very soon. I play 20+x MTT's per session. If I run bad for a week I am nearly broke with a 100 BI BRM. If you play it save and solid you won't have these sick up and down which really hurt your mindset. I really don't want to play 109$ MTT's this week and play 11$ Buyins next week because my BRM was at 100 BI's.
Sure - there is a difference in playing MTT's professionally and playing them for fun while not being dependent on the money. Still, a 100 BI BRM is suicide imo. 200 BI's should be fine in most cases. If you want to play it on a professional basis there is no way around the 400 BI's or more imo.
If you really play it for the lolz you might as well play with 1 BI BRM since you would be willing to cash in again. That's what most fishes do. Doesn't make it better from a professional few obv.
Regards,
Asaban
If you guys don't mind adding my 2 cents into this conversation. I have seen a pretty fool proof BRM formula: (It relates to Cash games but maybe some number genius's could convert some ROI's etc into this?)
bankroll = comfort * SD^2 / WR
where comfort depends on your risk tolerance and ability/willingness to move down.
A comfort level of 2 is aggressive.
A comfort level of 4 is conservative.
SD is your standard deviation, which is reported by programs like
PokerTracker and Hold'em Manager, and it is typically about 90 big blinds/100 hands
for 6-max players who buy in full, but it depends on playing style. WR is your win rate.
For example, if you use a middle-of-the-road comfort level of 3, and your SD is 90 big blinds/100 hands,
and your win rate is 6 big blinds/100 hands, then your bankroll should be about
3 * 90^2 / 6 = 4050 big blinds = 40.5 buy-ins.
If your win rate is only 3 big blinds/100, then you need twice as many, or 81 buy-ins.
If your bankroll drops below this amount, it doesn't mean you have to stop.
However, playing with less than half of the recommended bankroll should be viewed as an expense.
Thx for your 2 cents
Since cashgame has much less variance then MTT's it's not really comparable imo. Therefore you can't convert any BRM formula from cashgame to MTT's. If you run bad in the late game while running good early on you won't win a flowerpot (translating german phrases into english LIKE A BOSS ♠_cool: ). You don't know about your winrate as well since it defers very much, depending on the tourney structure and your stack.
Regards,
Asaban
deff don't need a big br to play the sm, [...]. you obv don't play it with a 1k roll, but with 5k i would pretty much play it every sunday. people act like they have to stay at one stake forever.
also, if its ur living you should rather do planned shots depending on previous sess and ur current economy.
EDIT by Asaban: insult deleted - please watch your tone - I'd like to have a constructive discussion here, there is no need to be rude
Originally posted by justkyle88
If you guys don't mind adding my 2 cents into this conversation. I have seen a pretty fool proof BRM formula: (It relates to Cash games but maybe some number genius's could convert some ROI's etc into this?)bankroll = comfort * SD^2 / WR
where comfort depends on your risk tolerance and ability/willingness to move down.
A comfort level of 2 is aggressive.
A comfort level of 4 is conservative.
SD is your standard deviation, which is reported by programs like
PokerTracker and Hold'em Manager, and it is typically about 90 big blinds/100 hands
for 6-max players who buy in full, but it depends on playing style. WR is your win rate.
For example, if you use a middle-of-the-road comfort level of 3, and your SD is 90 big blinds/100 hands,
and your win rate is 6 big blinds/100 hands, then your bankroll should be about3 * 90^2 / 6 = 4050 big blinds = 40.5 buy-ins.
If your win rate is only 3 big blinds/100, then you need twice as many, or 81 buy-ins.
If your bankroll drops below this amount, it doesn't mean you have to stop.
However, playing with less than half of the recommended bankroll should be viewed as an expense.
I dont think any amounts of math is gonna translate to the biggest top heavy online tournament. get this here stuffs gone.
The thing about it is that it only happens once a week. So if your a pro it will be a very small portion of your buyins. So as long as you dont need the money its a good investment since if you can offored to gamble 215 that you made from poker you obviously have an edge in this field. No math needed here. REAL TALK~
but your hourlys probably better just playin your normal game so only do it every now and again if you find it fun ♦
Cliffs- Your never rolled for the sunday mill but its +ev
This depends on LOTS of stuff.
All the regs are correct, its super easy to lose 100 BIs. I think if you are +EV you can play $200 tourneys with a $20k roll so long as you have around 400 ABIs. This is what I have been doing.
BUT you have to expect long breakeven stretches, because when you start doing this, even shipping a tournament at the lower end of your buy-in spectrum will only pay like 5 days of buy-ins, so you can lose money really fast.
As a result you gotta be willing to step down pretty fast. That said taking shots is in my opinion very good because the entire concept of MTTs are based on disproportionately big scores. Hitting one big score in a major is a very very large difference, which changes your poker life. Whereas, In the long run if you are a very good player, having a 8k bankroll and a 20k bankroll is not so much of a difference. If you were around just after BF and watched some of the American regulars like LipoFund building up their roll you would see what i mean. After relocating to Mexico he was playing 4.5$ 180 mans. 10 days later he was up playing $109Rebuy.
But seriously BRM depends on how good you are and you can't just act like old-fashioned books advise and just assume that you are very good. You gotta be realistic and know how good you are before you can determine ur BRM.
Originally posted by Prabhatallin
This depends on LOTS of stuff.All the regs are correct, its super easy to lose 100 BIs. I think if you are +EV you can play $200 tourneys with a $20k roll so long as you have around 400 ABIs. This is what I have been doing.
BUT you have to expect long breakeven stretches, because when you start doing this, even shipping a tournament at the lower end of your buy-in spectrum will only pay like 5 days of buy-ins, so you can lose money really fast.
As a result you gotta be willing to step down pretty fast. That said taking shots is in my opinion very good because the entire concept of MTTs are based on disproportionately big scores. Hitting one big score in a major is a very very large difference, which changes your poker life. Whereas, In the long run if you are a very good player, having a 8k bankroll and a 20k bankroll is not so much of a difference. If you were around just after BF and watched some of the American regulars like LipoFund building up their roll you would see what i mean. After relocating to Mexico he was playing 4.5$ 180 mans. 10 days later he was up playing $109Rebuy.
I really like your post.
Recently I have made my decision to play SM every week, but I set stop loss on 5k - when I fall under this level, I'm done playing SM before I will get over 6k again. IMO its the best solution, because playing SM is both EV+ and very fun for me.
Originally posted by Prabhatallin
But seriously BRM depends on how good you are and you can't just act like old-fashioned books advise and just assume that you are very good. You gotta be realistic and know how good you are before you can determine ur BRM.
To be honest, this is the biggest problem in large field MTTs. You cannot tell if you are great, good or b/e player, until you can show serious sample, like 10k tourneys, played not in 5 years, but 1-2 years (due to changing game lvl). To have that sample, you have to put a lot of hours into playing, which for me is imposible because of school, gf etc.
I assume I'm quite good, but my lifetime sample is like 2300 tourneys, so it is even possible, that I'm in reality slightly winning player, despite having 100% ROI.
My point is, that it is difficult to tell, while having long loosing period, if it is a serious downswing or you are just playing too high for your skill, and you will be loosing in time. That is why moving up is more complicated in MTTs than in cash games.
Originally posted by M0na1isa
hmm interesting. When I started to play MTTs I read couple of guides and couple of books (Guide was Ferguson's). Most of them believed in terms of BRM you could invest 2% of BR in a MTT. some of them 1%.
I checked again and I wasn't paranoid they really said that
Those books are long outdated. You have to understand that variance in an online MTT with 5000+ players is 10 times higher then a live tournament with 200-500 players that was pretty much a standard before 2004 pokerboom and im sure you were able to play those tourneys with 50BI BRM.
I know someone with a 4k+ bankroll and the biggest mtt's he play's are $20 buy ins. One thing, if you win a major, you could instantly win the br to play them all.
Originally posted by tomthebom28
I know someone with a 4k+ bankroll and the biggest mtt's he play's are $20 buy ins.
This should be standard...
200 BI's aren't that much - especially when playing at Stars. He should be able to add some higher BI's (meaning 33$ and 55$) from time to time to get to an ABI of 15 to 20$ - but higher BI's would be very optimistic.
