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Nutrition and poker.

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ThatGuyMatt
Joined: 03.12.2010

Grapes + Poker = Win!


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Styr
Joined: 11.03.2009

The single most important thing one can do, is to remove all traces of wheat from their diet.

Lecitins and anti-nutrients in wheat are causing a significant stress to the human organism, and one would do well by replacing wheat with other alternatives.

Some good listening on this topic:

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio/2012/04/RIR-120429.php


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That's interesting, and I do agree that the ancient grains are better than wheat, as well as that getting rid of the wheat products can be very beneficial for you in most cases.

I wouldn't say that it's the most important thing one can do though as you still have sugar, vegetable oil, sweets, etc. which are just as bad for you as wheat.

Also the link that you gave is full of business and marketing stuff, with a lot of advertised stuff, which isn't exactly the best place to look for knowledge. It would be better to read the actual studies on a subject than to read a marketing website.

But as I have read some studies myself, I do agree with you to an extent. I do however think that getting rid of sweets, junk food and white bread/pasta + beginning to exercise will lead to a much healthier life than only removing wheat products. Of course, you can always completely remove wheat as fine tuning and optimization, but there are other things that you should do first.

And I do think that you can live a very healthy, productive life even if you consume some whole-wheat products. Buying organic bio whole-wheat products is probably like burning money though, since there's a lot of marketing and false statements in that industry as well.

-SF


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Styr
Joined: 11.03.2009

Have to disagree with you on most fronts. :)

Most of the junk foods are based on wheat. Thus removing junk from ones diet will also remove a major source of wheat.

The thing about sweets and vegetable oil (as well as junk food, of course) is, that most sane people know they are not beneficial. Fewer people would say the same about wheat. In fact, they might even consider it healthy.

Secondly, the site I linked to is basically ad-free. The only "advertisement" is in the form of the authors citing their own research and books, and perhaps linking to it.

That does not mean that people can not speak rubbish there. I have, however, no reason to doubt this one. Also, I have heard some claims about wheat long before, but for whatever reason, did not bother looking into it.


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Well of course, and if you remove wheat from your diet, you will also remove many junk foods... But there is still a lot of stuff like fries, candy, popcorn, chocolate bars, etc. that are just as bad as wheat ;).

I agree that too few people know that wheat isn't good for you. You would actually be surprised to see how many people also don't know that brown sugar, vegetable oil, potatoes, corn, juices, frankfurters, salami, sausages, pate, etc. aren't good for you either.

So yes, removing wheat is important, but there are many things just as important. I think a way better statement would be that removing processed foods and sticking to foods that don't need processing would be the single best thing to do. This of course includes wheat as well, since you can't really eat raw wheat ;). Wheat is not as sensational as you make it sound :).

And on that website, almost all of the links lead to the same website, which is a web business website with marketing material. But as I already mentioned, it's not full of **** or anything, there is quite a bit of truth there. It's just that one should be aware that especially the food industry is full of marketing which makes ok things sound super incredibly effective.

And yes, removing wheat completely from your diet can be very beneficial, I agree with that. But in order to be healthy and optimally productive, you exercise frequently and remove other sources of crap as well.

-SF


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Styr
Joined: 11.03.2009

Well, perhaps it is not the most important thing, but quite high up in the "to do" list. :)


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ArkhamAsylum
Joined: 06.09.2011

mmmmmmmmm rashers my nutrition for poker


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This is a great thread thank you OP!

After becoming a vegetarian 4 months ago and adopting a similar lifestyle to that which you suggest I have noticed a significant improvement in poker and university mid-terms/thesis work. Most importantly, better sex :)

Thanks for the recipes and advice.


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vonki
Joined: 18.03.2008

What's your take on the LCHF diets around? There's different versions, like paello or whatever its called, but in Sweden (and scandinavia) LCHF is the most popular around atm.

The idea is pretty much to remove almost all carbs from your diet. When you're trying to loose weight its recommended you only eat 15g of carbs in a day, but if you just want a healthier lifestyle you can eat more carbs.

This obviously excludes alot of things completely, like any type of bread, pastas, chocolates you cant really have any of it or you'll have exceeded your daily intake already.

Its recommended u only eat things which contain 5g/100 of carbs or less (or ofc a small amount of something which contains alot). Stuff like oils, margarines etc isnt allowed either, except one type oil (im not sure of the english name but in sweden its "rapsolja" and real animalistic butter/fats). The difference to Atkins and other lchf diets is that dairy products are allowed in moderate amounts, but only fullfat versions and not all types of dairy products (I myself stick to cheese, fullcream and creme fraiche).

I'm quite liking it so far, I've done it for 3 weeks and I def dont get as tired after a meal as I used to. I also dont feel my bloodsugar spiking which used to make me v grumpy and mess with my mood. My mom's worried though that I dont get enough vitamines and stuff because you can't eat much fruit and only moderate amounts of vegetables.

The one thing I have noticed is that any cravings for sweet things have completely gone out the window. I can sit infront of my family on a saturday night when they eat chocolates, crisps, chocolates and all the things I used to love - and not even feeling like tasting any of it. Only sometimes I crave a glass of cold coca cola or fruits. My worry is that with switching to a diet with 50g carbs/day the cravings I used to struggle with may return.

Looking forward to hearing your take on it :)

Thnx in advance :heart:


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StaticMoth
Joined: 22.05.2009

Originally posted by vonki
im not sure of the english name but in sweden its "rapsolja"

it's rapeseed oil (aka canola oil as well if I'm not mistaken)


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tokyoaces
Joined: 01.04.2009

Originally posted by vonki
The idea is pretty much to remove almost all carbs from your diet. When you're trying to loose weight its recommended you only eat 15g of carbs in a day, but if you just want a healthier lifestyle you can eat more carbs.

This is NOT the point of Paleo. The point of Paleo is to remove foods that contain natural poisons. The top two on the list are grains (lecitins) and dairy (lactose). (If anyone is interested in the reasoning I highly recommend Robb Wolf's book The Paleo Solution.)

Any sane diet should be 30/30/30 with the additional 10% either being split equally between fat and protein or possibly leaning towards protein. 15g of carbs sounds completely crazy unless you meant per meal. However, your carbs should be coming from fruits and vegetables and not breads and pastas. No matter what your diet you shouldn't ever dip any group below the 25% mark. (We learned that lesson with the low-fat craze ...)


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@vonki:

What is your goal? Healthy eating, a lot of energy, losing weight? Which of these is most important to you?

Extremely low carb diets give the best fat-loss results among all diets. Of course fat loss greatly depends on exercise as well. Atkins and similar diets are used by professional body builders in order to achieve extremely low body fat levels.

But even they are aware that such diets are extremely unhealthy, especially if practised for longer periods of time. These really are diets and not a lifestyle. Especially the intake of minerals and vitamins is really low here, + the body uses it's defence mechanisms to get energy from fats, which really isn't good if you do it all the time. Also some people eat lots of cheese and other similar unhealthy fats when on such diets, which is really bad for you as well.

People do usually feel better on an Atkins diet than on a standard low-carb diet.

As a normal person without already low body fat, you likely won't notice much difference between Atkins and low-carb as far as losing weight goes.

To sum up:

Atkins and similar diets:

-Best fat loss results, especially at low body fat %
-Makes you feel really good
-Very unhealthy and should not be practised for a long time (you need to take a couple of months break after a couple of months of these diets)
-Very strict diet, might be hard to follow for some people

Paleo and other low carb diets:

-Very good fat loss for normal people
-You will still feel way better than on regular food full of carbs, especially if your carbs are mainly from fruit and vegetables
-Paleo for example is quite easy follow if you like fruit, veggies, meat, fish, eggs, etc.
-In general easier to follow than Atkins

If you decide to continue with your diet, I would definitely recommend consuming some multivitamin pills, at least 2 a day.

It all comes down to your goals. If you want to live healthy, stay away from extremely low carb diets, you don't need them if you want to lose weight. If you're a professional body builder, or you want fast weight loss results and don't care about health, go for Atkins.

And as far as I know, Atkins works below 50g carbs/day. I see no reason for going as low as 15g, that's insanely little of anything... it's like 300g of milk and nothing else, or like 100g of apples.

As for the cravings, they usually go away with time. I myself don't have any cravings on a Paleo diet.

Another interesting thing is no oil? I can't imagine that being good for you. Olive oil is extremely beneficial for you, I do not quite understand the reasoning behind this.

tokyoaces is also right, at least for the 95% of the population. Only professional body builders and professional sportsmen might need an extreme diet that might deviate from what he said.

I hope this helps,

-SF


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vonki
Joined: 18.03.2008

Thanks both of you for your answers :) I hadnt read up anything about paleo, just figured it was something similar. =) When I said max 15g of carbs/day I was talking about LCHF, which is a version of a (aparantly, extremely) low carb diet. And yes, I do mean 15g/day. And yes, it feels a bit crazy. I've had to exclude most fruits, and most vegetables. Feel like all I do is eat meat and butter and cheese heheh :P Fruit is supposed to be viewed as candy and only eaten once in a while.

As for your question Schnitzelfish I would say all three. I wanna eat healthy, have more energy but i want to get rid of some extra pounds too :) One of my goals for the year is becoming the best person I can be :f_love:

The reason I went with LCHF is because it's soooo popular here and I know a few pokerplayers (whos goal is not weightloss) who are following the diet so I thought by picking that one over Atkins I would have more access to swedish recepys and be able to get help/motivation/tips from the guys who've already been on it for more than a year.

I do however think about switching over to Paleo since in 3 weeks im going to the Philippines for 2 months at least, and I can't imagine eating so much fat and no fruit in that heat. At the same time Im not sure I can live without dairy products either. :f_mad: Maybe one day I could learn to manage without it. What do you think would happen if you go half way, LCHF (thus dairy products in moderate amounts) but increasing the amount of carbs/day to 50 so I can eat more fruit and veggies?

Thank you for taking your time to reply, was indeed helpful :)


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jasonforan
Joined: 04.06.2010

Of course fat loss greatly depends on exercise as well

This is a misleading statement.Although exercise is great over all for your health and also great to aid in fat loss, fat loss does not greatly depend on exercise. Fat loss boils down to one thing eating less calories than your body needs. Thats all there is to it. To make things simple theres basically 3 categories

Maintenance (Amount of calories to Maintain your current weight)

Greater than Maintenance (Eating more calories than needed to maintain your weight ie weight gain)

Less than Maintenance(Eating less calories than maintenance ie weight loss)

Obviously this is just a broken down version of fat loss. A pretty good thread with more information to fat loss > http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741

When it comes to nutrition/exercise nothing is set in stone.Even the best experts give conflicting information sometimes.Its best to do your own research and see what works best for you. IMO the best way to live a healthier lifestyle is exercise regularly, eat a balanced diet,drink plenty of water and try to limit processed foods to a minimum.

Some useful links.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=492749

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=122789461

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=136691851

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118885421


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Well, if you increase your carbs to 50g, you'll get something similar to a regular Atkins. But be careful because if you go above 50g carbs, you'll fall out of ketosis, which is pretty much the point of extremely low carb diets.

Some people also consume dairy with Paleo, and although technically it isn't Paleo anymore, you can still be healthy, lose weight and have a lot of energy if you do. I personally drink yoghurt and protein shakes myself so I'm not 100% following Paleo, but I get great results and sometimes you just need another source of protein other than meat. I would still stay away from milk though as it's (interestingly) actually worse for you than other dairy products.

So yeah, you can do a mixture of both I guess. I suggest Paleo with dairy because it's healthier and really easy to follow, + you will get the results you want. You don't need that extreme of a diet in order to achieve your goals. And yes, I know that lactose sucks, but in moderate quantities it shouldn't affect your health all that much.

Eating 15g carbs a day for a year is incredibly unhealthy and can have major consequences in the future, so I would really stay away from it if you want to get healthy. Also if you practise this low carb intake, you need frequent carb-ups (consume a LOT of carbs in one day every couple of weeks, it depends), otherwise your metabolism slows down, which messes up your energy levels and weight loss.

Also, you can't stay on such extreme diet forever (at least not healthy). Many people go back to their old eating habits after they're done with such extreme diets and then they get even fatter/unhealthier because of the yo-yo effect.

I'd say keep fruit down to minimum, add more fruit when you exercise more, but don't limit veggies intake.

-SF


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Originally posted by jasonforan

Of course fat loss greatly depends on exercise as well

This is a misleading statement.Although exercise is great over all for your health and also great to aid in fat loss, fat loss does not greatly depend on exercise. Fat loss boils down to one thing eating less calories than your body needs. Thats all there is to it. To make things simple theres basically 3 categories

Maintenance (Amount of calories to Maintain your current weight)

Greater than Maintenance (Eating more calories than needed to maintain your weight ie weight gain)

Less than Maintenance(Eating less calories than maintenance ie weight loss)

Obviously this is just a broken down version of fat loss. A pretty good thread with more information to fat loss > http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741

When it comes to nutrition/exercise nothing is set in stone.Even the best experts give conflicting information sometimes.Its best to do your own research and see what works best for you. IMO the best way to live a healthier lifestyle is exercise regularly, eat a balanced diet,drink plenty of water and try to limit processed foods to a minimum.

Some useful links.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=129247741

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=492749

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=122789461

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=136691851

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=118885421

Fat loss and weight loss unfortunately aren't the same thing. Weight consists of muscles and fat. Those 3 categories are true for weight loss. If you burn more cals than you eat, you will lose weight, if you burn the same as you eat you should maintain weight and if you burn less than you eat you should gain weight.

Sure, you can lose weight without exercising, but you will lose fat AND muscles, so you will look really skinny with no muscles in the end, = anorexic. I'm not sure that that is anyone's goal. Mostly, the goal is to lose fat and maintain muscle mass. And you can't do that without exercise.

So yes, you can lose fat without exercise, but there are many studies that show that a combination of nutrition and exercise give the best weight loss results, better than proper nutrition without exercise or exercise without proper nutrition. So I would say that fat loss does depend on exercise, as you will be able to lose fat much faster if you do it (even if you don't care for the muscle loss).

And yeah, in essence getting fit is really easy too - eat less, exercise more. But if that isn't done properly, it can become very unhealthy and cause injuries.

P.S. Those forums are really good, I've visited it before.

-SF


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vonki
Joined: 18.03.2008

Originally posted by Schnitzelfisch
Well, if you increase your carbs to 50g, you'll get something similar to a regular Atkins. But be careful because if you go above 50g carbs, you'll fall out of ketosis, which is pretty much the point of extremely low carb diets.

Some people also consume dairy with Paleo, and although technically it isn't Paleo anymore, you can still be healthy, lose weight and have a lot of energy if you do. I personally drink yoghurt and protein shakes myself so I'm not 100% following Paleo, but I get great results and sometimes you just need another source of protein other than meat. I would still stay away from milk though as it's (interestingly) actually worse for you than other dairy products.

So yeah, you can do a mixture of both I guess. I suggest Paleo with dairy because it's healthier and really easy to follow, + you will get the results you want. You don't need that extreme of a diet in order to achieve your goals. And yes, I know that lactose sucks, but in moderate quantities it shouldn't affect your health all that much.

Eating 15g carbs a day for a year is incredibly unhealthy and can have major consequences in the future, so I would really stay away from it if you want to get healthy. Also if you practise this low carb intake, you need frequent carb-ups (consume a LOT of carbs in one day every couple of weeks, it depends), otherwise your metabolism slows down, which messes up your energy levels and weight loss.

Also, you can't stay on such extreme diet forever (at least not healthy). Many people go back to their old eating habits after they're done with such extreme diets and then they get even fatter/unhealthier because of the yo-yo effect.

I'd say keep fruit down to minimum, add more fruit when you exercise more, but don't limit veggies intake.

-SF

Thanks for another helpful reply!

I used to drink alot of milk (sweden is probably one of the most milk-consuming countries in the world) growing up, our family and most others have milk with almost every meal, every meal of the day. After I moved out to live on my own i've practicly stopped drinking it though. Nowadays I drink water most of the time, but I do like to flavour it by putting in a few raspberrys, some fresh lemon, lime or whatever else I have at home.

When you say you have to do a carb-up, what should you be eating then? I mean to get ALOT of carbs, can I just eat some chocolate (which I havent had in 3 weeks) ? :f_biggrin: Or should I make mush potatoes, eat a slice of bread, eat tons of fruit or what would the best option be? I've been on extremely low carb intake for just over 3 weeks now but the last 3-4 days I've started feeling more tired again. :f_frown:

Also, you say one can't stay on such an extreme diet. Do you include paleo in that? I mean what would be the best long term solution? I don't plan on ever going back to putting too much carbs (such as pasta, bread, junkfood etc) in my diet because im convinced its really not good for you. I do however think I might take one day in a month when I can eat whatever I want.

Sry for my tons of questions but I really do aprechiate the answers! :)


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Hey again,

carb-up depends on a couple of things. If you are a professional sportsman or bodybuilder and want to get the best results, you will probably have to consume more than 5000 calories on a carb-up day, every week or so. That isn't exactly healthy, but it will kick your metabolism and get you the results you want.

For normal people, such frequent and extreme carb-ups aren't necessary. It's up to you to decide whether you want a very unhealthy or less unhealthy carb-up. If you want it to be less unhealthy, try rice, corn meal, corn, potatoes, perhaps some dried fruit... even less healthy options are ice cream, sweets, pasta, white bread, jelly, etc. Some people just eat anything they like on such day (they call it off day), from chocolates to a couple of mcdonalds menus.

For your specific situation, I encourage you to have a full-out off day right now, since your metabolism is probably really slow. So eat whatever you want, till you can eat no more, then eat some more. As usual on such days, you will feel like crap all day, but you will feel really good the next day.

For the future, having one day each month to eat whatever you want is fine. If you should continue on an extremely low carb diet, you should go all out on this day.

Paleo isn't an extreme diet, as in basic Paleo you can eat as much of anything from the allowed foods as you want. This also includes fruit, so carbs aren't extremely low (they're usually over 100g per day). I would argue that you also need to exercise a lot if you want to eat unlimited fruit and stay healthy, but that would be a long discussion.

So if you decide to take up Paleo, you don't really need a carb-up, and Paleo is more of a lifestyle than a diet, it's not limited to an amount of time. But you can still have 1 free day every month if you want to, it shouldn't affect your results. You might actually find it repulsing to have such a day because on Paleo you feel so awesome that you don't even think about sweets, etc.

-SF


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vonki
Joined: 18.03.2008

Eat until I cant eat anymore and then eat some more? :f_p: FML.

Thanks for all of your advice :) Going to read up more on paleo and switch over to that one. Have to say it will feel great getting to eat more vegetables and less fat again. Going to be swimming/working out daily in Cebu aswell so I can start eating some fruit, yey! :)

Forever greatful :heart:


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tokyoaces
Joined: 01.04.2009

Originally posted by vonki
When you say you have to do a carb-up, what should you be eating then? I mean to get ALOT of carbs, can I just eat some chocolate (which I havent had in 3 weeks) ? :f_biggrin: Or should I make mush potatoes, eat a slice of bread, eat tons of fruit or what would the best option be? I've been on extremely low carb intake for just over 3 weeks now but the last 3-4 days I've started feeling more tired again. :f_frown:

Potatoes should definitely be eaten in moderation. Even an average of one serving a day sounds a bit high to me. Your best carbs are fruits and then vegetables. Even a strict Paleo diet will have 90-100g of carbs a day with 2200cal intake.

If you are trying to lose weight definitely keep your carb intake around 25% as much as possible. You can track your calories and macro nutrients "easily" by using a site like myfitnesspal.com. Once you know how to eat you can ditch all of the counting and stuff because it becomes second nature.

Also if you want to read up on Paleo I highly recommend "The Paleo Solution". (Apologies if I've said that already.) It's an easy read and explains a lot of the whys. I personally still eat some dairy and rice but the information in the book gives you the power to understand the whys of good food vs bad food.

Like Schnitzelfisch I prefer high protein and lower carbs for losing weight, but if you are eating quality foods and avoiding bread you'll do pretty good naturally. Also, if you can get yourself addicted to green tea and miso soup you'll be nearly perfect. (Green tea has tons of good stuff for you and miso soup has a lot of natural digestive aids.)

Finally, grab some Omega-3 supplements. Unless you eat fish 2-3 times a week this is the best thing you can take after a multi-vitamin. Remember drugs are for a malfunctioning body, but supplements are for a well-functioning one.

Edit: I completely missed Schnitzelfisch's carb-up post. If you drink green tea or take it as supplement you don't need to bother with this. Just change your diet and your body will respond.


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