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TP v flop raise

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breena
Joined: 14.09.2010

Ongame Network $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 1858487
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $100.75
UTG: $35.31
Hero (CO): $123.88
BTN: $102.61
SB: $97.50

Villan 23/18/6.7/1k hands also calls BU 17% raise flop CB 17%

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with J :heart: Q :club:
1 fold, Hero raises to $3, BTN calls $3, 2 folds

Flop: ($7.50) J :club: 7 :diamond: 3 :club: (2 players)
Hero bets $5.50, BTN raises to $18, Hero calls $12.50

Turn: ($43.50) 8 :spade: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: ($43.50) T :spade: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $27, Hero ??

I find I get in these spots quite often and decided I was going to call down as villan makes this play a bit to often allthough I had no notes before this hand.


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4 replies
lnternet
Joined: 19.06.2012

Button cold call of 17% is very high, so that will include all pocket pairs, most Axs, most broadways, and a lot of suited connectors, probably down to 54s on occasion.

Raise cbet of 17% is somewhat high. One thing to pay attention to is whether he raises his top pairs. Because if he doesn't you often have a profitable 3bet bluff on the flop / can 3bet middle pair to stack off (at least on boards as the one in this hand).

So QJ is actually a monster on the flop, you are only bet by 33 77, and maybe KJ AJ, if he raises those. 3betting flop and proceeding to stack off is certainly reasonable against such an aggro player. Just calling is fine too.

Lets try to put him on a range once he checks back turn. I think his nuts, sets, 87, AJ, T9, will bet pretty much always. His good draws will bet as well, so fds or 65. That leaves him with all the semi bluffs he raised with on the flop which are too weak to bet turn. Among them are probably AQ AJ AT KQ KT QT 54 A3. Certainly turned 8x is his range, so A8 T8 98, maybe 86.

On the river you can't value bet, so check. When he bets, a thin value hands like a set or 2pr is unlikely, especially with his big sizing. So he has either a 9x or a bluff. What hands that get to the river contain a nice, and what hands have no showdown value and might bluff?

I dont see too many 9x hands to be frank. 98 is the most likely one. 97 might just call flop. A9 might not raise flop. K9 might not call preflop. Going on, all 9x except for 98 seem unlikely, though not impossible.

What potential bluffs could he have? The ten makes him check a lot of 1pr Tx hands, so there is not too many either. AQ KQ, maybe Axs (A2 A5 etc), then 64 54. Not too many hands.

So I think this is pretty close on the river. I think you are going to have a good amount of 9x in your range, and the Q you hold blocks his most likely air hands (KQ/AQ) so that a fold seems good to me.


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axelphoney
Joined: 03.10.2009

Originally posted by lnternet
Raise cbet of 17% is somewhat high. One thing to pay attention to is whether he raises his top pairs. Because if he doesn't you often have a profitable 3bet bluff on the flop / can 3bet middle pair to stack off (at least on boards as the one in this hand).

So QJ is actually a monster on the flop, you are only bet by 33 77, and maybe KJ AJ, if he raises those. 3betting flop and proceeding to stack off is certainly reasonable against such an aggro player. Just calling is fine too.

Care to elaborate on this?

How can we profitably stack off with middle pair OTF, if villain doesn't raise the flop thinly for value?

Originally posted by lnternet
So I think this is pretty close on the river. I think you are going to have a good amount of 9x in your range, and the Q you hold blocks his most likely air hands (KQ/AQ) so that a fold seems good to me.

Are there really that many 9x in our range after all? Only 9x I can see would be J9, 99, and maybe some random 9x FD.

and obv 98s then


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breena
Joined: 14.09.2010

Thanks for the quick and detailed reply.

So yeah villan showed up with 8 :heart:9 :heart:

Im not to sure he is going to stack off on the flop with this or even with JT. Calling the raise on the flop pretty much told him I got a Q which I suppose makes it really easy for him to value bet of bluff any :club:

The river was a pretty terrible card but it just felt so weak the way the whole hand played out.

I often find these guys with highish flop raises are doing it with really weak draws or bottom/middle pairs so I think reraising our air on the flop alot may be a good play


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lnternet
Joined: 19.06.2012

Originally posted by axelphoneyCare to elaborate on this?

How can we profitably stack off with middle pair OTF, if villain doesn't raise the flop thinly for value?

Well if villain raises flops with sets and draws (air, gutshot, legit draws), and we block one of the sets, we are going to have the best hand almost always. So we can go ahead and 3bet for value: if he always folds all worse hands, easy, you win the pot with your second pairs and all 3bet bluffs. So he has to defend against the 3bets: he will jam some of his draws. And second pair is ahead.

Now I'm not saying you should stack off with second pair much. But it can be fine.

Originally posted by axelphoney
Are there really that many 9x in our range after all? Only 9x I can see would be J9, 99, and maybe some random 9x FD.

and obv 98s then

yeah not too much, but some. We need to defend ~60% of our bluffcatch+ range on the. We have a nine maybe 20% of the time? So about a third of our necessary calls are with the straight approx? You should run the numbers :)


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