[Closed] NL100 10 9 suited

Its well played: if has JJ he played it weired as he didn't protect his top set. TT is unlikely, as is J9.

wouldnt it be better to raise preflop?

oops sorry i assumed he had raised

ofc raise this preflop !

am i missing something? hero is openlimping, there is no raise preflop

openlimping sucks, raise PF.

What do the hand judges think about a river check/raise?

Originally posted by Sebra
What do the hand judges think about a river check/raise?

Interesting move, but the problem is, a check/raise on the river looks so strong that I don't think even a flush will call you. Plus you won't really induce any bluffs on a 3-connected, paired, 3-suited board. (unless your opponent is a PS admin of course ♦)

Originally posted by swissmoumout

Originally posted by Sebra
What do the hand judges think about a river check/raise?

Interesting move, but the problem is, a check/raise on the river looks so strong that I don't think even a flush will call you. Plus you won't really induce any bluffs on a 3-connected, paired, 3-suited board. (unless your opponent is a PS admin of course ♦)

my problem with a river check/raise is a combination of problems with this, and with stack:pot ratio here.

if we check/raise (assuming he just calls our raise, which because it's such a strong move, he'll rarely 3bet it), we won't get his whole stack in. whereas if we bet/reraise, we can stack him.

Originally posted by chenny8888
if we check/raise (assuming he just calls our raise, which because it's such a strong move, he'll rarely 3bet it), we won't get his whole stack in. whereas if we bet/reraise, we can stack him.

He'll also rarely raise our bet with less than a full house (even the A-high flush will often flat call)

Originally posted by swissmoumout

Originally posted by chenny8888
if we check/raise (assuming he just calls our raise, which because it's such a strong move, he'll rarely 3bet it), we won't get his whole stack in. whereas if we bet/reraise, we can stack him.

He'll also rarely raise our bet with less than a full house (even the A-high flush will often flat call)

What about K9o , & what he thinks he is beating I dont know lol
Thorsten77 is right about the way he played it and not having Js or 10s

Originally posted by Sebra
What do the hand judges think about a river check/raise?

Against unknown I rather like valuebet.
There isn´t so many hands that could try to bluff us on the river+ straight/flush/boat would re-raise anyway.

i dont like c/r because he might call something marginal.
and does not valuebet light.
Only the flush bets the river.
At mid stacks he will shove to your bet at the river a lot
so checkraise and bet call are equal but he could call marginal hands
so i think bet is more +ev

At highlimits i like the bet more vs an aggresive player because we give him the chance to turn his marginal hand into a bluff. (Bluffshove)

if you check
Something like a jack will not bet because you could play c/c with an overpair or the straight.
and the flush might not always bet because he has a hand that only gets called from a small range (qq KK AA) and might get raised sometimes as a bluff (QQ KK AA depending at stacksizes by the way a nice bluff to turn an overpair into a bluff if you are a little deeper and vs some very good thinking players )and he cant call the riverraise.

As a conclusion

Vs stupid - bet
Vs low - midstacks tag c/r because he has nearly only the flush in his range to nearly 80% and is not that good to fold to a c/r
Vs highstacks player depends how smart he is and how light he folds the river and how much marginal hands he has at the turn and if he turns marginal hands into bluffs.

If the turn is a 3:d
Sebra that do you think about betting the turn with something like
Q :diamond:Q, K :diamond:K, A :diamond:A ?
QJo, Q:d J, KQo?
And with JJ ?
Im not sure if i want to check raise or check call or what to do oop at the turn

and the flush might not always bet because he has a hand that only gets called from a small range (qq KK AA) and might get raised sometimes as a bluff (QQ KK AA depending at stacksizes Augenzwinkern by the way a nice bluff to turn an overpair into a bluff if you are a little deeper and vs some very good thinking players )and he cant call the riverraise.

Can we turn QQ QJ KK AA in to bluff? Lets say we are 150bb deep

I agree - its a raise preflop, openlimping should be generally avoided IMO (there are some exceptions, but as a general rule of thumb just don't do it ;-)).

Regarding Sebras question: I prefer a bet vs. unknown. His range is sth. like a J (2 pair), a weak flush, a good flush or a boat. Against a better boat we go broke either way. A good flush will probably raise the river and we can get it in. Sometimes, he'll only call, but there are also some very passive guys that don't bet e.g. the Q high flush if we check or would fold a big flush if we c/r. A weak flush will typically not call a c/r, but definitely call a bet. A J would often call a bet, but definitely check behind. Hence, I think betting is best.

Originally posted by Marky84
am i missing something? hero is openlimping, there is no raise preflop

In some cases, "hero" isn't the right word

Originally posted by SonicXT

Originally posted by Marky84
am i missing something? hero is openlimping, there is no raise preflop

In some cases, "funny" isn't the right word

Originally posted by SonicXT

Originally posted by Marky84
am i missing something? hero is openlimping, there is no raise preflop

In some cases, "hero" isn't the right word

If you know how to play postflop and can beat the players around you postflop , openlimping is not always bad , not saying preflop raise was not better but without information on players I prefer to take them on postflop

Devilfish stated on a TV show that when he plays Head-up he dont raise preflop on the bases that he can beat most players postflop and its giving no inforfation preflop , poker is not always black & white

devilfish is an idiot.

Originally posted by swissmoumout
devilfish is an idiot.

true

but he is rich with WPT & WSOP titles