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is this collusion?

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** History for hand T5-291061670-28 (TOURNAMENT: "Double or Nothing Turbo", S-5641-103033, buy-in: $22) **
Start hand: Wed Nov 28 21:53:24 UTC 2012
Table: Table #1 [291061670] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 100/200, Chips)
User: SuperSeanE
Button: seat 8
Players in round: 4 (6)
Seat 2: djb100 (230)
Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (1060)
Seat 8: SuperSeanE (1195)
Seat 9: Valorosul (6515)
Valorosul posts small blind (100)
djb100 posts big blind (200)
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to SuperSeanE: [6h, Ts]
_U_R_TILTED_ folds
SuperSeanE folds
Valorosul folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: 200 won by djb100 (200)
Rake taken: $0
Seat 2: djb100 (330), net: +100
Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (1060)
Seat 8: SuperSeanE (1195)
Seat 9: Valorosul (6415), net: -100
** End of hand T5-291061670-28 **

** History for hand T5-291061670-32 (TOURNAMENT: "Double or Nothing Turbo", S-5641-103033, buy-in: $22) **
Start hand: Wed Nov 28 21:54:54 UTC 2012
Table: Table #1 [291061670] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 100/200, ante: 20, Chips)
User: SuperSeanE
Button: seat 8
Players in round: 4 (6)
Seat 2: djb100 (170)
Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (700)
Seat 8: SuperSeanE (835)
Seat 9: Valorosul (7295)
Valorosul posts ante 20
djb100 posts ante 20
_U_R_TILTED_ posts ante 20
SuperSeanE posts ante 20
Valorosul posts small blind (100)
djb100 posts big blind (150) [all in]
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to SuperSeanE: [Jc, Th]
_U_R_TILTED_ folds
SuperSeanE folds
Valorosul folds
---
Summary:
Main pot: 280 won by djb100 (280)
Rake taken: $0
Seat 2: djb100 (330), net: +160
Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (680), net: -20
Seat 8: SuperSeanE (815), net: -20
Seat 9: Valorosul (7175), net: -120
** End of hand T5-291061670-32 **

collusion? should i send emil to betfair asking for a refund as i ended up losing this game


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11 replies
Ramble
Joined: 17.11.2008

It is certainly horrible play, but I don't think 2 hands is proof of collusion...


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this is how the game ended

** History for hand T5-291061670-37 (TOURNAMENT: "Double or Nothing Turbo", S-5641-103033, buy-in: $22) **
Start hand: Wed Nov 28 21:57:04 UTC 2012
Table: Table #1 [291061670] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM 200/400, ante: 40, Chips)
User: SuperSeanE
Button: seat 9
Players in round: 4 (6)
Seat 2: djb100 (1290)
Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (1380)
Seat 8: SuperSeanE (190)
Seat 9: Valorosul (6140)
djb100 posts ante 40
_U_R_TILTED_ posts ante 40
SuperSeanE posts ante 40
Valorosul posts ante 40
djb100 posts small blind (200)
_U_R_TILTED_ posts big blind (400)
---
Dealing pocket cards
Dealing to SuperSeanE: [9c, Kd]
SuperSeanE calls 150 [all in]
Valorosul calls 400
djb100 folds
_U_R_TILTED_ checks
--- Dealing flop [4s, Th, 3s]
_U_R_TILTED_ checks
Valorosul checks
--- Dealing turn [8s]
_U_R_TILTED_ checks
Valorosul bets 400
_U_R_TILTED_ folds
--- Dealing river [Tc]
---
Summary:
Main pot: 760 won by Valorosul (760)
Side pot 1: 550 won by Valorosul (550)
Rake taken: $0
Seat 2: djb100 (1050), net: -240
Seat 3: _U_R_TILTED_ (940), net: -440
Seat 8: SuperSeanE (0), net: -190, [9c, Kd] (PAIR TEN)
Seat 9: Valorosul (7010), net: +870, [Ts, 5s] (FLUSH TEN)
** End of hand T5-291061670-37 **

so he is willing to call me for 400 with 10 5 but not willing to call the other guy for 100 and 50 chips the 2 times. surely this must be collusion or if not collusion some form of softplay wereby he tries to get me rather than the other guy either way it is against the terms nd conditions of fair play i think.


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FVM8973
Joined: 08.08.2010

It 's true, 2 hands are not proof of anything, but this is at least suspicious. You have the right to request the poker room review the HH of this and other tournaments. They must review tournaments pleyed for this people.

My opinion: I used yo play DoNs and saw many extrange things but nothing like this, this is collusion.


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Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

It is worth asking for a review.
I've no experience with this, but isn't it common in DoNs for chip leaders to just fold everything?

In the last hand, he could lose and still be chip leader, so it is no big deal for him to call.

As to the others, he could just claim that he was on the phone, didn't notice or whatever.

The room's security staff would need to look over the long term for tournaments where these two played against each other.


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badgerer
Joined: 29.03.2010

it is almost definitely deliberate in my opinion, but not necessarily collusion.

maybe he was annoyed at you for whatever reason and just wanted u to bust. were u making life difficult for him raising a lot? or maybe u coolered him or sucked out??

ego's a hulluva drug.


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AugustusCaesar
Joined: 24.05.2008

Hello,

Definitely ask for review !

To be helpful, this is what I did in 2009 when I had a suspicion, PokerStars investigated, refunded me money and banned those guys (I removed their names). The easiest way to find collusion guys is to check whether they play a lot together (much more often than they would randomly)

GL!

-------
Hello,

I have contacted you in the matter of collusion of two players (their names in the text below) and I have done some investigation on them on my behalf .. I have downloaded their statistics from SharkScope and found out, that the player ... played a total of 88 SNG and amazingly, 37 of them he played with the guy called ...... .. The Ids of the tournaments are attached to this e-mail

Please use this data to investigate on them

Thank you very much

Now the text of the old e-mail :

Hello,

I am a pretty experienced SNG player, and I have a very serious suspicion that 2 of the players I have been at the table at were colluding when 3 handed in push-fold stage .. One of them with more chips was always folding his small blind to the guy with less chips, or they both limped in and the guy with less chips pushed allin on the flop and the other guy folded – I think they were doing what is called chip dumping for a pretty long time there and they are a serious threat to your games ..

Please Investigate them as I felt very bad sitting at the table being cheated, the player IDs:
....
....

Tournament : 209931599 , $6.50 NL HE Turbo SNG 9 handed

Best regards,


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UPAY4DINNER
Joined: 28.09.2009

Definitely worth a review. Even if it's not the case it is always worth it :)


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ramadas
Joined: 02.09.2011

I wonder if such collusion practices are possible in live casino?


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Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Even easier I'd imagine.
At least online, they can look back to see how many times two players played the same tournaments, and how many times they behaved this way.


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MatejM47
Joined: 21.01.2010

Definitly not enough to prove collusion. Whats more likely is he missclick folded since most don players play like 50 tables so a missclick is far more likely then collusion.


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abhi147
Joined: 12.08.2011

I have seen quite a few plays like this mainly on the ipoker network
But cant really be 100% sure

In this case it looks quite clearly a collusion play


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