red line consistently down

Yeah it's perfectly normal for beginner strategy. However, in order to improve your winrate you must work on your non-showdown winnings. (You don't need your red line to o steady up, but slowing it down or making closer to break even will give you better winrate).

-50bb/100 in red line isn't normal with any strategy. Def a huge leak if numbers are right

I think he means 5bb/100 which is nothing to be concerned about imo

Hey seacat22,

Here is great article wirtten by one of our coaches: The Red-Line Myth

Take a look at it and maybe you will find all answers about red line.

-50bb/100 in red line isn't normal with any strategy. Def a huge leak if numbers are right

just noticed something about my red line I normally play 10nl nlhe fr my red line is consistently down by the same amount .5c per hand my usual session is 200 hands and I am usually down $10 overall I am $120 down over 24000 hands

i think he means that he is 0.5c down every hand and not 5c. So he looses like 5bb/100 hands without showdowns which is not that bad. Actually it is pretty good.

Of course if he looses 50bb/100 this is very bad but i am pretty sure this is not the case.

Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
-50bb/100 in red line isn't normal with any strategy. Def a huge leak if numbers are right

Re-read OP he said .5 (.5=0.5)

thx for replies so far glad to know this is normal for beginner
what are the usual leaks that beginners have that affects the red line
( recently I have stopped set mining short stacks and it only took me three months to work that one out)

Originally posted by seacat22
thx for replies so far glad to know this is normal for beginner
what are the usual leaks that beginners have that affects the red line
( recently I have stopped set mining short stacks and it only took me three months to work that one out)

You are a nit, thats why your redline is going down. You don't 3bet bluff preflop enough, don't cbet bluff enough, fold blinds too often. Or, it could be that you bluff in earlier streets and give up on later streets.

EDIT: It does not mean that you are playing bad though. My redline in NL10 and NL25 was going down as well, as I was playing mostly for value, as a lot of people don't fold enough, so there is no point in bluffing.

Please just don't go crazy. FR game is full of tight guys and you have to be nitty. You have to work very hard on your game.

Don't sacrifice ever your green line just because you want nicer red line. Green line is the only line that counts. Work on your game, spot your leaks and work hard to reduce them to minimum. But don't ever do things because you want your red line nicer.

Originally posted by seacat22
thx for replies so far glad to know this is normal for beginner
what are the usual leaks that beginners have that affects the red line
( recently I have stopped set mining short stacks and it only took me three months to work that one out)

This is not necessary a leak. Just go step by step. It is not easy just to say you fold to much or you don't bluff enough. Regarding set mining it is really easy rule to follow i am pretty sure you are familiar with. It is called CALL20 rule. Of course we don't need to always stick to it but in general it is ok.

Ah -5bb/100 is perfectly normal at any stakes

Originally posted by seacat22
thx for replies so far glad to know this is normal for beginner
what are the usual leaks that beginners have that affects the red line
( recently I have stopped set mining short stacks and it only took me three months to work that one out)

I think one of the biggest factors is probably folding too much to steals. But with 24k hands it might be worth posting your stats for others to comment on, maybe you'll get more of an idea then.

edit: But like NightFrostaSS and others have said its perfectly normal to have that kind of red line.

sorry if I was not clear and caused some confusion
here are the figures red line lost $120 in 24000 hands
so that is 0.5 per hand x100 =50 cents per 100
if a big blind is 10 cents then it is 5bb/100

You are a nit, thats why your redline is going down. You don't 3bet bluff preflop enough, don't cbet bluff enough, fold blinds too often. Or, it could be that you bluff in earlier streets and give up on later streets.

All very true

alan for link to article some interesting and well made points in

would be happy to post stats if you could tell me which ones are relevant

If you use HM2 i think it would be useful to send us your overall stats (with call 3bet% and fold 3bet % included) + positional stats.

thats great I use pt4 so I will do that tomorrow as it very late here and my boss says it is time for bed

Here are the stats as promised I hope someone can spot something in them
if you think any others are relevant I will try and get them

POSITION HANDS VPIP PFR BB/HAND 3BETPF 4BET+ CALLPF3BET PFSQUEEZE
BTN 3000 26 20 0.11 2.68 0.77 15.7 3
CO 3000 15 12 0.14 1.7 5.3 22 2
MP 7000 11 8 0.13 1.6 4 31 1.5
EP 5000 8 7 0.0 1.4 16 45 0
BB 3000 17 7 -0.45 6 2 5 3
SB 3000 26 21 -0.16 6 1 11 2

CBETFLOP CBET TURN
BTN 68 35
CO 56 35
MP 56 32
EP 50 42
3BETSTEAL FOLD TO 3BETSTEAL
BB 63 40 12 75
SB 58 63 13 82

sorry the stats appear in a mess it is not displaying what I am typing as I am putting in lots of spaces to line numbers under headings I have tried to correct this a few times but when I press review it defaults to everything being squashed up to the left margin

You could try screenshotting your stats on PT4, then upload it to an image hosting site like imageshack or tinypic & paste the link here

my red line is always higher than my blue line.

I am basically break even with regards to my red line but down quite a lot by my blue line. Im not sure if this is to do with being sucked out on a lot, going on crazy tilt and not playing my A game or just calling down with the worst hand too much. I suppose it is a mixture of all 3.

I figure if I can improve my showdown winnings I will be a big winner, as until recently my red line was +ev and is only slighly below now.

I play NL2/NL5

I have started a bankroll challenge for 2014 on full tilt, I started with $40 and as I was down $50 on NL2 Full tilt last year my goal is to get that back first and turn it into $25 profit at that limt then I will be rolled enough to start playing NL5. I am losing 10bb/100 over 24k hands.

Opinions on how to go forward anyone?